New girl on the block

[Deisel]

Hi all,

Thought I would join a tort forum because I have recently inherited what I think I have identified a female Hermanni name Deisel. She's had a really tough life by the looks of it but she's so full of character and ive already become the overdoting mum.

Deisel was found a couple of years back (can't be sure how long) by someone I know, they were driving their car and had to slam their foot on the breaks to avoid hitting what they thought was a rock in the middle of the road. . .turns out it was my girl covered in Deisel (hence the name).

This person took it in and was told it was a parrot beak tortoise . . .facepalm . . .this meant that poor Deisel had a severely overgrown beak and the owners thought it was normal and so did nothing about it which in turn meant that despite trying to eat with a healthy appetite . . . struggled and became extremely underweight and suffered from all sorts of vitamin defficiencies which has left her carapace looking really sad with huge dents.

In short it looks like Deisel has had a pretty shocking start to life and I'm determined now that she is my repsonsibility to make her as happy and as healthy as possible even if it means I have to hand feed her for over 2 hrs a day until the tortoise specialist has an appointment available to file her beak (this Thursday woo).

I make sure she bathes nearly every day, ensure she's well fed, she spends most of her time basking in the hot spot then at night buries herself under some newspaper to sleep. She's a lovely natured tortoise and extremely sociable chases after my toes really doesn't show any discomfort being picked up, extremely curious, seemingly fearless and an absolute survivor!

We don't currently keep her in a tort table because every time we have kept her enclose she climbs up the sides and tips herself on her back so she pretty much has free roam of one room but mainly sticks to her favourite places (which is mainly where the lamp is and where ever we plant food for her to find to keep it a bit more exciting!)

Please help advise me on how to ensure my girl is happy and healthy.

 

[wellington]

Hello and welcome. Sad yet happy story. so glad she found you. Thank you for wanting to give her a better life. Would love to see pics. I bet she's a cutie even with all her life battle scares or lumps and dents should I say.

 

[Deisel]

Of course, what i'll do is post a before and after so this is before her vets appointment Thursday see that pretty but sad little face with her overgrown beak and also her battle scars . . .also forgot to say my previous post that some mindless idiot had also painted her with silver glitter most of it I removed but there is still a little bit left which is pretty tricky to get at so any advice on how to deal with that would be appreciated.

Any help to be honest would be appreciated a lot of the damaged done has clearly been done overy years and years of neglect so keens to reverse what I can and make those eyes a little more smiley.

 

[JoesMum]

Hi

Firstly congratulations on the rescue

I suggest you start by reading these two threads thoroughly as they will answer many if your questions

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Hermann's Care Sheet
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/

You really do need to get this tort in a proper enclosure that is big enough for it. Roaming the house is a recipe for problems.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Welcome

 

[Deisel]

Thank you Joesmum : )

 

[JoesMum]

That beak is very overgrown. The poor animal is probably starving

Once it has been clipped, feed off a piece of flat rock, slate or tile and the abrasion when eating will help to stop it overgrowing again

 

[Rue]

Poor baby! Thanks for taking her in! She sounds like a trooper! Looking forward to seeing her "after" pictures.

Just curious about her name...how are you pronouncing it? Dee-sel or Die-sel?

 

[Sandy Martinez]

Poor baby so glad she found you Welcome

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello

 

[Deisel]

Poor baby! Thanks for taking her in! She sounds like a trooper! Looking forward to seeing her "after" pictures.

Just curious about her name...how are you pronouncing it? Dee-sel or Die-sel?

Deeseal. . .like as in deisel petroleum as when she was found she was covered in it poor thing.

 

[Deisel]

That beak is very overgrown. The poor animal is probably starving

Once it has been clipped, feed off a piece of flat rock, slate or tile and the abrasion when eating will help to stop it overgrowing again

I know she's got a massive appetite too she literally doesn't stop eating (I have to hand feed her as it's heart breaking to watch her try eat on her own and miss all the time! Although she still does try. Yep we've already got the slate.) Thank youuu

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

 

[Speedy-1]

Hi and welcome ! Diesel is lucky you rescued her ! Good job !

 

[Deisel]

Hi

Firstly congratulations on the rescue

I suggest you start by reading these two threads thoroughly as they will answer many if your questions

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Hermann's Care Sheet
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/

You really do need to get this tort in a proper enclosure that is big enough for it. Roaming the house is a recipe for problems.

Hello so you seem to be quite a tortoise expert and I was wondering whether you could help at all.

Enclosure
Deisel's enclosure is not really an enclosure she has the free roam of a room but usually sticks to where the heat lamp is as it's nice and warm about 32 degrees at it's warmest point. She has lots of places to hide herself should she want to and when she's hungry she often goes for a wander (we usually dot fresh food about on a slate so that she feels like she's found it when she goes for her walks and although she struggles to eat it and I give in and hand feed her a lot sometimes I come back and it's been demolished.) Does that sound appropriate enough for her to be kept? We can't have her in a tort table because when we tried she kept climbing up and tipping herself on her back. I guess she's used to have free roam but I live in London and it's far too cold for her to be kept outside.

Food
Food is a bit of a pain, I try when I can to feed her on weeds but it's not very green around me and some of the local gardeners use weed killer so I can't get them on demand. In addition to weeds I get her anything green and leafy. Her favourite are dandelion leaves. She also loves cucumber but I'm aware there is no nutritional value . . .it is the only thing I can get her to eat with the vitamin supplement sprinkled on. . .her sense of smell is amazing and she's very hard to trick. Cucumber also helps her pooh . . .she got constipated and squeaked when she didnt get cucumber in her diet for 3 days so i decided moderation would probably be okay. She literally does not stop eating bless her but she doesn't touch the cuttlefish bone . . .how do you ensure you have enough food and where do you get it from? Also how do you ensure they're getting enough vitamins? I've never seen Deisel interact with the cuttlefish bone how can I encourage her?

Baths
I bathe Deisel at least once every two days (depending on her behaviour . . .if I think she's constipated or lathargic then I bathe her twice a day at least) I used tepid / warmish water as it seems to help her bowel movements but she also seems to enjoy it. I have to change the water every 5 minutes as she does urinate etc. How can I ensure she's drinking enough water? How can I ensure she's not dehydrated?

Carapace
As you can see from her sad little photos her carapace is in a sorry state - will this be permenant or is there something I can do to improve and reverse the damage already done? How does this happen is it mainly a calcium deficiency as I suspect? If so are supplements and cuttlefish enough or does she need more? I have heard vitamin injections are not effective, is that true?

Sorry for all the questions I am determined to get this girl feeling brand spanking new and happy and healthy and will do anything within my control in order to aid that!

 

[JoesMum]

Just letting you know that I have seen this, but it's bedtime here in the UK. I'll come back to you in the morning

 

[Deisel]

Just letting you know that I have seen this, but it's bedtime here in the UK. I'll come back to you in the morning

Haha thank you I am also from UK (London) so really should get myself in bed too. . .I'm being typical worried mum! Good night.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Wonderful story. How did you arrive at the name spelling?

Read the threads Yvonne linked to above. The deformed nature of your new friend is likely from a lack of UVB exposure. She needs to be in a proper enclosure, no free roaming. You need to build a safe, warm space with appropriate UVB emitting lights if she can't be setup outside. Diet, hydration, and lighting are really important right now (and getting her beak trimmed).

 

[JoesMum]

Hello so you seem to be quite a tortoise expert and I was wondering whether you could help at all.

Enclosure
Deisel's enclosure is not really an enclosure she has the free roam of a room but usually sticks to where the heat lamp is as it's nice and warm about 32 degrees at it's warmest point.

Firstly, your enclosure needs to be a minimum of 4'x8' (1.2m x2.4m = roughly 3.5 square metres). Anything smaller and tour tort will have insufficient space. Russians are very active and need as much space as you can give them. An old bookcase with the shelves knocked out makes a great tortoise table. Line it with shower curtain or pond liner to protect it from damp and use coco coir, orchid bark or cypress mulch as a substrate (not sand - it sticks to food and impacts in the gut)

Russians are expert climbers, so it will be necessary to cap the corners to prevent escape. They also love to burrow. In the wild, it is estimated they spend up to 70% of their year underground! Trashing the enclosure is normal. You just have to get used to it!

The basking lamp must hang straight down vertically and have 35C (95F) at tortoise level underneath it. The best way to measure temperature is to use a temperature gun like this. Put the light(s) on a timer to make life easy for yourself and to have them make a standard 12 hour day - no lights are needed at night, but you may need additional heat in winter (use a Ceramic Heat Emitter for this)

Your tort also needs UVB to be healthy. If your tort does not go outside then you must provide a lamp. There are two types of UVB lamp that are safe to use and a third that isn't.
SAFE 1. A mercury Vapor Bulb that lookslike a basking lamp, but also provides UVB like this
SAFE 2. A Tube UVB like this - only provides UVB and needs a separate basking bulb

UNSAFE 3. A compact, coil type UVB that looks like an energy saving light bulb like this.These cause eye problems in tortoises - DO NOT USE.

She has lots of places to hide herself should she want to and when she's hungry she often goes for a wander (we usually dot fresh food about on a slate so that she feels like she's found it when she goes for her walks and although she struggles to eat it and I give in and hand feed her a lot sometimes I come back and it's been demolished.) Does that sound appropriate enough for her to be kept?

Pictures of the enclosure will give me a better idea of what is going on here

We can't have her in a tort table because when we tried she kept climbing up and tipping herself on her back. I guess she's used to have free roam but I live in London and it's far too cold for her to be kept outside.

I live in Kent - only a few miles from you. It is NOT too cold! Please see this thread Outdoor Accommodtation in a Colder (UK) Climate that I created to explain what I do. Joe is out 24/7 now and this week is motoring with the turn in the weather!

It sounds like your tort has insufficient space and is trying to climb out. See my earlier points.

Food
Food is a bit of a pain, I try when I can to feed her on weeds but it's not very green around me and some of the local gardeners use weed killer so I can't get them on demand. In addition to weeds I get her anything green and leafy. Her favourite are dandelion leaves. She also loves cucumber but I'm aware there is no nutritional value . . .it is the only thing I can get her to eat with the vitamin supplement sprinkled on. . .her sense of smell is amazing and she's very hard to trick. Cucumber also helps her pooh . . .she got constipated and squeaked when she didnt get cucumber in her diet for 3 days so i decided moderation would probably be okay. She literally does not stop eating bless her but she doesn't touch the cuttlefish bone . . .how do you ensure you have enough food and where do you get it from? Also how do you ensure they're getting enough vitamins? I've never seen Deisel interact with the cuttlefish bone how can I encourage her?

Joe used to go for cuttlebone when he was growing, but now he's full size he rarely touches it. Some do, some don't. A tiny pinch of calcium powder, or ground up cuttlebone, a couple of times a week is sufficient - you can overdose, so no more than that.

They are picky eaters and will hold out for what they like best. There is little point trying to force the issue until that beak is in shape.

Your tort needs to learn that food doesn't only come from a human hand. Seeing as she's starving and Russians can be little piggies, I suspect that it won't be too much of a problem getting her to eat off a flat slate or rock instead once the beak is trimmed. Weeds are ideal, but not always available. It is OK to supplement with some pellet food when the good stuff is in short supply. Weeds and garden plants are preferable as they have a higher fibre content than lettuces and, just like you, they need that fibre as well as hydration to poop successfully.

They are very stubborn and will hold out for what they like. You have to be like Mum faced with a toddler demanding sweets for dinner and insist! A hungry tort will eat. If necessary, chop the food that she will eat finely and wet it. Mix it with a tiny amount of finely chopped healthy stuff - it will al stick together - and then serve that. Gradually increase the proportion of healthy stuff and decrease the not-so-healthy until she's happily eating what you want her to.

Use The Tortoise Table Plant Database to identify the plants growing round you that you can feed and also those that you can buy in the supermarket. There's also a pdf plant identification booklet that you can download from that website - and there's an androisd app for it too!

Baths
I bathe Deisel at least once every two days (depending on her behaviour . . .if I think she's constipated or lathargic then I bathe her twice a day at least) I used tepid / warmish water as it seems to help her bowel movements but she also seems to enjoy it. I have to change the water every 5 minutes as she does urinate etc. How can I ensure she's drinking enough water? How can I ensure she's not dehydrated?[/url]

Let me start with peeing a pooping. Your tort needs water for hydration and will, from time to time, pee a white stuff called urate. Urate is how your tort rids itself of proteins that it has ingested. This should be jelly-like. If it is gritty then your tort is dehydrated.

You must provide water in the enclosure - a terracotta plant saucer sunk into the substrate is best. Don't put it right in a corner or along the edge of the enclosure as it will get marched through and substrate dragged into it. The reptile bowls sold by pet shops are a tipping hazard due to their steep internal sides and should not be used.

Pooping requires both hydration and dietary fibre as I said earlier.

My tips for successful soaking:
1. Do it it first thing in the morning before she has warmed up properly that way she is more likely to relax into the water and enjoy.
2. Soak in a high sided bowl that she can't see through - a washing up bowl is ideal.
3. Use warm, but not hot water. Tepid is probably too cool. It should come up just over your tort's plastron.
4. For dehydration, my vet, Mark Rowland, recommends adding Reptoboost to the soaking water - I use it after hibernation.
5. Soak for a good 20 minutes.
6. Your tort will undoubtedly pee and/or poop in the water. Don't get too hung up on this, - torts have a delightful habit of eating poop - just fish the poop out. If the water gets truly disgusting or cold then change it.

Carapace
As you can see from her sad little photos her carapace is in a sorry state - will this be permenant or is there something I can do to improve and reverse the damage already done? [/url]

The carapace damage is caused by poor husbandry - diet and humidity are the principal causes. If you correct both of these then, as she grows, it will become less obvious but it will not go away completely. She is pretty big though, so you will have to accept that it is likely to always be there. Also, as your tort bumbles round - especially outdoors - natural wear and tear will gently abrade the shell and smooth it a little. See pictures of my Joe in the outdoor accommodation thread and and how smooth he is; he's far from perfect I know where his lumps and dents are

How does this happen is it mainly a calcium deficiency as I suspect?If so are supplements and cuttlefish enough or does she need more? I have heard vitamin injections are not effective, is that true?

Your tort needs:
1. the correct diet - discussed earlier
2. UVB (discussed earlier) which helps it make vitamin D3 which in turn helps it to absorb dietary Calcium (discussed earlier)

Vitamin supplements other than a little calcium should not be necessary. Reptile vets will not inject vitamins as it is easy to overdose and cause severe skin problems. If vitamin supplementation is necessary then bird vitamins added to the soaking water are the best way to do it.

Sorry for all the questions I am determined to get this girl feeling brand spanking new and happy and healthy and will do anything within my control in order to aid that!

Phew! I think I have answered everything! You can see why I went to bed and left it to the morning Feel free to come back with more questions

 

[RosemaryDW]

Welcome and thank you for helping this tortoise.