New member here! Tortoise species identification/gender question

[Leerayy12]

Your 60 gallon tank should be fine for a while. Put some damp orchid bark or hand packed coco coir substrate in there, two terra cotta saucers sunk into the substrate for food and water, and a humid hide, and you are good to go.

Outdoors all day is bad for babies. I've tried this in side-by-side experiments with clutch mates of several species, including this one, over many years to test this theory. Little babies do MUCH better when kept mostly indoors. These rescue groups and state biologist care sheets give advice that is likely to result in their death in one of many ways, dehydration being the most likely. Outdoors all day, with the right set up, is GREAT for adults and large juveniles. It just needs some TLC while it is a baby. Most babies in the wild do not survive. Most babies housed outdoors the way they recommend don't survive, and the the few that do are stunted, pyramided, and permanently disfigured.

It is not eating because it is slowly dying due to stress, dehydration, and the wrong heating and lighting. Get it set up and lit correctly, following the temperate species care sheet, and the appetite should come around in a day or two. Soak in warm water for 40-60 minutes every day, and keep the water warm for the whole soak.

It is legal to keep them. You are supposed to get a license for them which is cheap and easy, but you can worry about that later if it survives and starts growing well. They aren't going to come banging down your door. The reps of the government agencies doing the licenses have unanimously told me not to worry about licensing babies because "most of them don't survive". They don't survive because people follow the advice given by these same government agencies, and other people who learned their bad advice from sources like that. I have received dozens of dried up nearly dead babies over the years, and only one died because it was too far gone when it came to me. When started correctly after hatching, 100% of them survive and thrive. It’s just really hard to find the right info to start them correctly, unless you come HERE to TFO, which you have now done. All that is left is to make the set up and temperatures correct, hydrate it, and hope you found this little one in time to save it.

Thank you so so so much for being so helpful and kind. I truly appreciate your expertise. I have already started making changes. Here is a pic of my progress. I soaked the little tortoise this morning for an hour and it seemed happy and was moving around in the warm water I just need to get a proper hide, more orchid chips, 2 terracotta, the proper lighting and a humid type top! Am I on the right track?

 

[Leerayy12]

@Leerayy12 If you do not do something drastically like now, you are going to kill this baby. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you are not rescuing it if he/she dies, you are making it suffer. Hatchlings are very critical to care for.

We here at our rescue, have a hatchling desert tortoise. It is kept at 85 degrees, lives in a humid closed chamber tote, is soaked daily in warm water and placed near the southern facing window during the day to stay warm. It does go outside for no more than an hour for UVB. It's substrate is moistened hand pressed coco coir (we found is the best) and has a hiding place to go into when desired. It eats Mizuri with greens and is thriving! It is monitored all day long because it will flip itself over at any given time. I am a mother of 2 and it's care is pretty close to raising a baby without the diaper changes! Although you must watch for it to poopoo! Reasons for the confirmation that it is hydrated and processing its food properly and so that it does not get impaction.

I am sorry to be so blunt, I say this not to offend you but to state the reality. Although you may have had the best intentions to help this baby, you are actually killing it. Unless you pay attention and make the necessary changes immediately, you WILL kill this baby.

This is what I’ve been able to do so far!

 

[Leerayy12]

Thank you so so so much for being so helpful and kind. I truly appreciate your expertise. I have already started making changes. Here is a pic of my progress. I soaked the little tortoise this morning for an hour and it seemed happy and was moving around in the warm water I just need to get a proper hide, more orchid chips, 2 terracotta, the proper lighting and a humid type top! Am I on the right track?

 

[Leerayy12]

I apologize...I got the impression you weren't that interested.
Do those rescue's know it's a hatchling? I have been to several rescue's in Arizona, species specific, as they are my most favorite tortoise and they were totally set up beautifully, for adults, not hatchling. The Arizona-Sonora rescue, (wrong word) anyway I have been there just east of Mesa is a beautiful place...I admit it has been a few years so I might be wrong now.
I do believe you can use that 60 gallon, use fine grade orchid bark or Reptibark put 6 inches in or so, get all the rest of the stuff suggested and then you can cover the top with aluminum foil to hold in the humidity...you never saw a happier tortoise then AB when he see's dandelions...View attachment 368909
I keep Sulcata now, but there are 3 of my most favorite tortoise photos, such a happy tortoiseView attachment 368910

Beautiful tortoise!! I really hope mine lives to be that healthy 🤞🏻 Thanks to all of you on here I might be able to do right by it and save it! I’m a huge animal lover and ever since I was little things that need saving find me! In my backyard there’s a bunch of things that can kill it so I’m really trying over here and that’s why I was originally making a safe outdoor area large enough for a baby tortoise. I’m not going to lie your first post did upset me a little bit because I truly am trying but I know you’re coming from a good place now. So thank you for the apology and I would love any recommendations that you might have☺️

 

[Leerayy12]

I have this UV from when I had a bearded dragon, the bulb still works and it’s in great condition. Would this be ok or do I need a new UV and a new bulb of some sort? It’s a 120V 60Hz 0.3 amps

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

You are on the right track with your little guy
1. Before you get more orchid bark - you may look for a fine grade bark (0.5-1 inch pieces) or you may go with coco coir (soil like ground coconut shell), which is easier to walk on and burrow.
2. UVB lamp is T8 type and low wattage. Perhaps, it won't give enough UVB unless you mount it very low. Also, depending on quality, lamps have a lifespan of 2000-4000 hours before UV output fades below meaningful level. You may do either 15 minutes outdoors sunbathing sessions (in a smaller outdoor pen with enough shade to hide, preferably under supervision) or get a new UVB lamp and fixture (T5 tube like ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 or Arcadia proT5 Desert 12%). Besides UVB lamp you will need an incandescent lamp (flood or "pear" type) for the basking spot.

 

[Leerayy12]

You are on the right track with your little guy
1. Before you get more orchid bark - you may look for a fine grade bark (0.5-1 inch pieces) or you may go with coco coir (soil like ground coconut shell), which is easier to walk on and burrow.
2. UVB lamp is T8 type and low wattage. Perhaps, it won't give enough UVB unless you mount it very low. Also, depending on quality, lamps have a lifespan of 2000-4000 hours before UV output fades below meaningful level. You may do either 15 minutes outdoors sunbathing sessions (in a smaller outdoor pen with enough shade to hide, preferably under supervision) or get a new UVB lamp and fixture (T5 tube like ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 or Arcadia proT5 Desert 12%). Besides UVB lamp you will need an incandescent lamp (flood or "pear" type) for the basking spot.

Thank you so much for the info! I will get a new UV! And I thought what I bought was fine grade because that’s what it said

You are on the right track with your little guy
1. Before you get more orchid bark - you may look for a fine grade bark (0.5-1 inch pieces) or you may go with coco coir (soil like ground coconut shell), which is easier to walk on and burrow.
2. UVB lamp is T8 type and low wattage. Perhaps, it won't give enough UVB unless you mount it very low. Also, depending on quality, lamps have a lifespan of 2000-4000 hours before UV output fades below meaningful level. You may do either 15 minutes outdoors sunbathing sessions (in a smaller outdoor pen with enough shade to hide, preferably under supervision) or get a new UVB lamp and fixture (T5 tube like ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 or Arcadia proT5 Desert 12%). Besides UVB lamp you will need an incandescent lamp (flood or "pear" type) for the basking spot.

thank you so much for the info! I really appreciate it! I will get a new UV!

You are on the right track with your little guy
1. Before you get more orchid bark - you may look for a fine grade bark (0.5-1 inch pieces) or you may go with coco coir (soil like ground coconut shell), which is easier to walk on and burrow.
2. UVB lamp is T8 type and low wattage. Perhaps, it won't give enough UVB unless you mount it very low. Also, depending on quality, lamps have a lifespan of 2000-4000 hours before UV output fades below meaningful level. You may do either 15 minutes outdoors sunbathing sessions (in a smaller outdoor pen with enough shade to hide, preferably under supervision) or get a new UVB lamp and fixture (T5 tube like ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 or Arcadia proT5 Desert 12%). Besides UVB lamp you will need an incandescent lamp (flood or "pear" type) for the basking spot.

You are on the right track with your little guy
1. Before you get more orchid bark - you may look for a fine grade bark (0.5-1 inch pieces) or you may go with coco coir (soil like ground coconut shell), which is easier to walk on and burrow.
2. UVB lamp is T8 type and low wattage. Perhaps, it won't give enough UVB unless you mount it very low. Also, depending on quality, lamps have a lifespan of 2000-4000 hours before UV output fades below meaningful level. You may do either 15 minutes outdoors sunbathing sessions (in a smaller outdoor pen with enough shade to hide, preferably under supervision) or get a new UVB lamp and fixture (T5 tube like ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 or Arcadia proT5 Desert 12%). Besides UVB lamp you will need an incandescent lamp (flood or "pear" type) for the basking spot.

Thank you so much for the information! I really appreciate it! I’ll get a new UV and some finer bark! Do you have any recommendations on a cheap lid to keep the humidity in?9

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you so much for the info! I will get a new UV! And I thought what I bought was fine grade because that’s what it said

Thank you so much for the information! I really appreciate it! I’ll get a new UV and some finer bark! Do you have any recommendations on a cheap lid to keep the humidity in?

"Fine grade" is different from bag to bag (some are 0.2-0.5 inches, which I think is more a sawdust than bark). You may try to crush large bark pieces but amount of time and labour may not worth it. Be sure to get fir bark, not pine.

The cheapest lid - is to wrap tinfoil over the mesh and cut precise holes around light fixtures. Doesn't work as good as the other options, but it's a quick fix. Portable greenhouse tops are good cheap option too (you may put it over the whole tank), also a right sized tall plastic container can work.

 

[TammyJ]

You're getting great advice here to help your little tortoise survive and grow healthy! Thank you for your loving care!

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Leerayy12 ... Just checking in and hoping it's going well.
YES it is a lot to do, deal with and try to figure out but well worth the effort when YOUR tortoise is healthy and happy. Please don't get discouraged we all started where you are now.

 

[Leerayy12]

@Leerayy12 ... Just checking in and hoping it's going well.
YES it is a lot to do, deal with and try to figure out but well worth the effort when YOUR tortoise is healthy and happy. Please don't get discouraged we all started where you are now.

Thank you for checking in. I appreciate it! My tortoise has been getting a morning soak everyday and I think I witnessed it eating yesterday from a far. However, it walks around the habitat a little bit but then usually goes to lay near the heat lamp most of the day and sleeps. I’m not sure if this is normal when they’re babies? Here’s a pic of my setup

 

[Leerayy12]

"Fine grade" is different from bag to bag (some are 0.2-0.5 inches, which I think is more a sawdust than bark). You may try to crush large bark pieces but amount of time and labour may not worth it. Be sure to get fir bark, not pine.

The cheapest lid - is to wrap tinfoil over the mesh and cut precise holes around light fixtures. Doesn't work as good as the other options, but it's a quick fix. Portable greenhouse tops are good cheap option too (you may put it over the whole tank), also a right sized tall plastic container can work.

Thank you so much for your advice! I did a tinfoil lid and it seems to be helping with the humidity and heat! I also did the coconut coir because everything that I was finding was not as fine as what you were describing.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you for checking in. I appreciate it! My tortoise has been getting a morning soak everyday and I think I witnessed it eating yesterday from a far. However, it walks around the habitat a little bit but then usually goes to lay near the heat lamp most of the day and sleeps. I’m not sure if this is normal when they’re babies? Here’s a pic of my setup

Yes, babies sleep a lot. Can you make him a small hide there? Sleeping just under the light is not a good thing, but a warm hide - is fine.

Overall, the enclosure is nice!

A couple of improvements to make:
1. "Hand-pack" coco coir so it will be less dusty and messy (to around a half of its thickness - e.g. if there was 6 inches it will become 3). Add more coir if needed to get 4-6 inches of packed substrate.
2. His hide (on the left) has to be opaque - more like a burrow, than a greenhouse. And you can make it smaller - this will add more feeling of security. Tortoises hide where it's hard to find and get them out and avoid large burrows (who knows what lurks there).
3. Put thermometer down on substrate - you need temperatures and humidity on the ground where your tortoise is, not under the ceiling where hot air gathers.
4. You may try to open window blinds to add ambient light in the enclosure. But watch for temperatures - a glass tank under the sun may overheat easily.
5. Some visual barriers and hides will be nice. E.g. hills of substrate, maybe a shady potted plant or two. Not too many, to avoid clutter.

 

[Leerayy12]

Yes, babies sleep a lot. Can you make him a small hide there? Sleeping just under the light is not a good thing, but a warm hide - is fine.

Overall, the enclosure is nice!

A couple of improvements to make:
1. "Hand-pack" coco coir so it will be less dusty and messy (to around a half of its thickness - e.g. if there was 6 inches it will become 3). Add more coir if needed to get 4-6 inches of packed substrate.
2. His hide (on the left) has to be opaque - more like a burrow, than a greenhouse. And you can make it smaller - this will add more feeling of security. Tortoises hide where it's hard to find and get them out and avoid large burrows (who knows what lurks there).
3. Put thermometer down on substrate - you need temperatures and humidity on the ground where your tortoise is, not under the ceiling where hot air gathers.
4. You may try to open window blinds to add ambient light in the enclosure. But watch for temperatures - a glass tank under the sun may overheat easily.
5. Some visual barriers and hides will be nice. E.g. hills of substrate, maybe a shady potted plant or two. Not too many, to avoid clutter.

I got that hide on the left because I couldn’t find any darker ones and if I could they were way too big. I tried to find a black kitchen sink tub like suggested but they were all ginormous :/ Will the thermometer be okay down on the substrate with the tortoise able to get to it? I also got an infrared laser too! When you say make a small hide under the light, how do I do that? Do I make a hill of some sort?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Ok, I see. You can look for plastic planters in a garden store, home goods stores usually have all sorts of opaque containers (like paper tissues boxes).

Thermometer should be fine if knocked down You may duct tape it to hide wall if you want.

A small hide can be made out of a flower pot cut along in halves. Harder to do that with terracotta pots, but doable too.

 

[Leerayy12]

Ok, I see. You can look for plastic planters in a garden store, home goods stores usually have all sorts of opaque containers (like paper tissues boxes).

Thermometer should be fine if knocked down You may duct tape it to hide wall if you want.

A small hide can be made out of a flower pot cut along in halves. Harder to do that with terracotta pots, but doable too.

Thank you so much for your recommendations! I made all of them and hopefully the setup is perfect now🤞🏻

 

[SinLA]

Make sure that light on the left is secured by something other than a clip. Fires can be caused when those fail. I would try to secure it from above or use a bungie around the clip for extra protection

 

[Leerayy12]

Make sure that light on the left is secured by something other than a clip. Fires can be caused when those fail. I would try to secure it from above or use a bungie around the clip for extra protection

Okay, I’ll try to find something to make the light more secure other than the clip it came with! Thank you! Also, the baby has been under the heat lamp for the last few hours and only moves a little bit under the light. I added the little hide in the corner yesterday so it doesn’t just stay directly under the light but it doesn’t seem to want to go there yet.. maybe because it’s new. Can I assume that if it wanted to move and was too hot/dry it would?

 

[SinLA]

Okay, I’ll try to find something to make the light more secure other than the clip it came with! Thank you! Also, the baby has been under the heat lamp for the last few hours and only moves a little bit under the light. I added the little hide in the corner yesterday so it doesn’t just stay directly under the light but it doesn’t seem to want to go there yet.. maybe because it’s new. Can I assume that if it wanted to move and was too hot/dry it would?

if you pick it up and move it to the other end of the enclosure, does it walk back to the bask section?

 

[Leerayy12]

if you pick it up and move it to the other end of the enclosure, does it walk back to the bask section?

It walked itself over to the basking area this morning, I can move it again and see!