Tortspeedo24
New Member
My best estimate is 4 year old or under, by looking at the comparison with your hand, a mature and older female Russian tortoise would have been 6-10” inches longer around 5 year or older.
New Russian tortoise here!
- Thread starter BowserTurtle
- Start date
Sorry for the long comment, I wanted to fully explain my reasoning so it didn’t seem like I’m just pulling this out of thin air, and I might’ve dumped too much, lol
I’m not sure this is entirely accurate. You are correct that female Russians are generally a lot larger, and usually I would also assume that a Russian this size is a male or a female that is still growing. However, pet stores and vendors that supply pet stores, even reptile specific ones, specifically tend to select tortoises, almost guaranteed to be wild caught, as close to 4 inches as they can. This isn't always the case, but it is a trend I've seen. This way, more can be shipped in the same size box, more can be kept in the display at the store, and employees unaware of their source will use the smaller size to claim that the tortoise is a lot younger than it actually is. Because smaller tortoises are selected, it makes it much more likely that you will receive a tortoise that is just a smaller individual, even in females. I have actually recently seen, on the other tortoise group I frequent, multiple female Russians purchased from chain pet stores, that were without a doubt wild caught, that did not surpass 5 inches. These tortoises had not grown at all in the time since they had been purchased. They also had shell scuffs and other healed damage that implied that they were fairly old and were developed to the point that they were identifiable as female, so it is very likely that those tortoises are mature.
The main thing that makes me think both wild caught and 4 years or greater, other than the fact that it was purchased from a store as an adult, is the condition of the shell and the location of the owner. The shell looks moderately scuffed with healed scrapes, which is highly unusual in a tortoise raised indoors, at least as a hatchling and while growing, and most commonly seen in wild caught tortoises. Unless it was brought in from out of state, it is unlikely to have been housed outdoors all of the year in Oregon’s weather, and I would not expect a facility raising tens or hundreds of tortoises, which is the only way it could be profitable unless the tortoises are sold at exorbitant prices, to have enough or large enough indoor enclosures. It’s possible they could have been hibernated, but outdoor hibernation is very risky, and I doubt they had the fridge space for all of them. Doesn’t mean they didn’t just hibernate them in a way that isn’t totally safe, though. It could definitely work for some of the year, but probably not for the length of time that would result in this tortoise’s appearance.
It also has the many growth rings Yvonne mentioned, and though you can’t get an exact age from them, it can be a good estimate and was one of the reasons I put my upper limit at 15+, though exactly 15+ was obviously never meant to be taken as my confident answer to the question. Wild Russians will generally be growing at a much slower rate than most raised in captivity as I understand it, and tortoises this size can be much older than what you would expect from one raised in captive conditions.
This really doesn’t look like a very young tortoise. The beak is also not overgrown like you would expect it to be in a Russian tortoise raised in captivity with the low fiber or easily chewed diet someone raising them to sell would likely feed, and it has been my experience that newly imported Russians tend to have short or only slightly overgrown beaks. That one is definitely not a sure fire way to tell and I wouldn’t hinge any kind of argument on it, it’s just something I’ve noticed and thought I’d mention.
We also have not been able to confirm that the tortoise is actually a female, though it definitely could be given the size of females I’ve seen recently.
Again, sorry for the super long response, I wrote it all out and realized that was probably way more than I should’ve thrown at you lol
Hey hi there...I live in Corvallis...please don't judge and make everyone miserable, that being you and us...some of the members here are looking out to care for the tortoise, and I have noticed and will agree to some extent that it might look to newcomers like they were getting jumped on. Yvonne is among the most experienced of our members and she did apologize to you...lemme know if I can help you any...
Hi and welcome!
Not sure if you are still reading this. Yes people on this forum, just like everywhere else, come in all stripes in terms of social abilities. If you have social anxiety you can probably relate to the fact that there is a lot of ND everywhere, and believe me reptile owners are their own brand of independent. Sorry you felt personally attacked, I assure you everyone responding is only putting the interests of the tortoise ahead of everything else, including social niceties, for better for for worse.
Its never a good feeling when you come for advice and immediately feel personally attacked. The flip side of what you are seeing is like 99% of the 'Hi I'm a new owner here" posts are "hi I'm a new owner, the pet store told me to do all this, now you are telling me its wrong and I probably do not have the resources to own this pet in a way that is good for it" and the rather than digest the facts of the situation, people just get mad or go find "youtubers" and FB sites that tell them what they want to hear (the same thing the pet store told you).
So a few things:
1) Doesn't matter if its a petco or a reptile store, doesn't matter if the sales people are idiots or the nicest people on the planet, pet stores are there to sell you products. while giving you 'good" advisc would seem like part of the deal, the fact is the "good" advice for the majority of people is "do not buy what we are selling" so therefore they do not do that.
2) I can't say for sure, but the odds are strong that a) your tortoise is wild caught and b) its much older than you think. The fact is unless a tort is very young, its next to impossible to guess an age. Size isn't age specific after a certain point, as the environment it was raised can make a huge difference. And in the end, it doesn't really matter if she's 4 or 14 or 24, you still need to give her the best care possible.
3) 99.99% of people who come on this site with a pet store purchased tortoise do not keep it in a correct enclosure. It is ALWAYS too small (ALWAYS), and often does not have the right bulbs, heat, and substrate.
4) So any curtness you are seeing is because the same stuff comes up over and over again. And yes it would be better if people were sometimes more overtly welcoming, but as as everyone is different, sometimes just "here's the facts" is people's way of "cutting through the BS" and giving you what you need to hear short and sweet, and how people respond to that really varies. Some are exceedingly grateful, some get insulted. No matter what, this is a great place to learn what is good for your tortoise.
If interacting with people is harder for you, I do strongly recommend these FAQs. This is a good one (tho a lot of it is geared for people acquiring young torts, not those who find themselves with adults). It is a lot to get thru, but worth it.
tortoiseforum.org
Its never a good feeling when you come for advice and immediately feel personally attacked. The flip side of what you are seeing is like 99% of the 'Hi I'm a new owner here" posts are "hi I'm a new owner, the pet store told me to do all this, now you are telling me its wrong and I probably do not have the resources to own this pet in a way that is good for it" and the rather than digest the facts of the situation, people just get mad or go find "youtubers" and FB sites that tell them what they want to hear (the same thing the pet store told you).
So a few things:
1) Doesn't matter if its a petco or a reptile store, doesn't matter if the sales people are idiots or the nicest people on the planet, pet stores are there to sell you products. while giving you 'good" advisc would seem like part of the deal, the fact is the "good" advice for the majority of people is "do not buy what we are selling" so therefore they do not do that.
2) I can't say for sure, but the odds are strong that a) your tortoise is wild caught and b) its much older than you think. The fact is unless a tort is very young, its next to impossible to guess an age. Size isn't age specific after a certain point, as the environment it was raised can make a huge difference. And in the end, it doesn't really matter if she's 4 or 14 or 24, you still need to give her the best care possible.
3) 99.99% of people who come on this site with a pet store purchased tortoise do not keep it in a correct enclosure. It is ALWAYS too small (ALWAYS), and often does not have the right bulbs, heat, and substrate.
4) So any curtness you are seeing is because the same stuff comes up over and over again. And yes it would be better if people were sometimes more overtly welcoming, but as as everyone is different, sometimes just "here's the facts" is people's way of "cutting through the BS" and giving you what you need to hear short and sweet, and how people respond to that really varies. Some are exceedingly grateful, some get insulted. No matter what, this is a great place to learn what is good for your tortoise.
If interacting with people is harder for you, I do strongly recommend these FAQs. This is a good one (tho a lot of it is geared for people acquiring young torts, not those who find themselves with adults). It is a lot to get thru, but worth it.
Info For New People. Please Read This First.
Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...
tortoiseforum.org
mojo_1
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing Elvis has left the building. Sort of speak.
Hi and welcome, this certainly isn't a clique forum and everyone is welcome and everyone has the best interests of torts at heart.
The care sheets are the the most up to date and best you'll find anywhere because they are written by keepers with decades of experience many of whom have been involved in research and who thankfully share best practices with us. There is always someone to answer any questions and help, so if you want to help your tort thrive then please stay.
I'm in the UK and joined almost 10 years ago as a complete novice; the help I've had has kept my tort healthy and happy and I still have plenty to learn and I do most times I log in from reading the forums.
I was reading through this thread and thought I'd put my thoughts in even though I'm a little nervous but I want to be honest and say what I feel.
I joined this group 5 years ago and I have to admit that I found it very intimidating. I have stuck with it because I care about my tortoise and want to do the very best and I do believe that this forum has the very best experts in reptile care. I find that the American experts are the most direct and less friendly or warm than UK well known members and I've realised that perhaps it's just the way of American members? I understand how this person has felt "jumped on". This forum does seem quite Clique to outsiders and I do not interact any longer. Partly because I always end up feeling stupid or ignored by the "experts" although I have been given answers to my questions, and partly because I am a very self conscious person. So that's my problem. I know that.
I have however found myself reading a new person's message at times and thought dear god! They have no clue about proper tortoise care and it makes me very sad and quite angry. So I can understand that experts here must get frustrated by new owners and members with the lack of basically any knowledge and inability to take advice. It's the tone in which it is delivered that could be different.
I have found UK members to be so much warmer and more friendly in their response, especially Lyn W. That is my take and I am sure I will have "warm" responses and not "cold" ones to this comment. This site is so valuable in resources and advice that I really appreciate the effort and hard work put into it. So thank you to all. But please try to be understanding of different perspectives and be kind and a little bit warmer your responses.
I have been left feeling very insecure and afraid to comment at times. Or like a little sad person who says thank you too much to VIP experts. I silently find what I need and leave again.
I shouldn't feel that way in such a huge forum.
