New table

[Yvonne G]

Just a note on heat at night: The Testudos need a drop in temperature between day and night. HermanniChris has been keeping and raising different types of Testudos for years and has written several care sheets, reminds us about the cooler nights for Testudos. Go to the Greek and Hermanns sections and read Chris's care sheets.

 

[Mark Cassell]

Yes, some people believe that tortoises can see through the glass, or don't understand why they can't get through it, or see their own reflection in it and try to fight themselves.
Many people solve this by putting tape around the bottom couple of inches so the tortoise can't see out. it works for them.
Others have encountered no problems with it and large closed topped vivs are often used as they are great for keeping in the humidity.
Impaction with sand or gravel can be fatal.
The end of this article particularly talks about sand and how it can even make horses sick.
http://www.tortoise.org/general/impact.html

Oh dear why do all these websites tell you to put them in sandy conditions like there natural habitat?

 

[Yvonne G]

Because that's old school. We've evolved. And one thing to remember, even if the native soil is sand, a tortoise hardly ever eats off the ground in the wild. He bites off bits of food from a stalk, leaf or blade...in other words, food up off the ground.

 

[Mark Cassell]

Because that's old school. We've evolved. And one thing to remember, even if the native soil is sand, a tortoise hardly every eats off the ground in the wild. He bites off bits of food from a stalk, leaf or blade...in other words, food up off the ground.

Hopefully she shouldn't be too bad she's only been in there a few weeks and I feed her on a big piece of slate which I clean everyday. Thanks

 

[Mark Cassell]

Hopefully she shouldn't be too bad she's only been in there a few weeks and I feed her on a big piece of slate which I clean everyday. Thanks

I was just concerned that the topsoil alone would be to damp for her?

 

[Yvonne G]

Personally, I don't use sand at all, but I really respect HermanniChris, and he advises a mixture of sand and top soil. Substrate is a personal thing - what works for you. First you try to figure out what the tortoise needs, then you provide that any way you can. I just looked up Afghanistan to try to see if I could figure out the type of soil there, but the site I found was too varied for what I wanted. (Your tortoise comes from Afghanistan). This is the site:

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/afghanistan-i-geography

I like the small grade orchid bark. For babies that like to burrow, I mix in potting soil with the orchid bark. But everyone has their own way to achieve the results they want. There is no one-size-fits-all.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Oh dear why do all these websites tell you to put them in sandy conditions like there natural habitat?

Good question.
Old and outdated information.
I live in a country where Testudo (Greeks, not Russians, but they are similar in many respects) live in the wild and mostly in areas where there is little or no sand in the soil. Some live in areas with more sand, near the coasts or in the south, but not in the Sahara itself. They tend to graze at a level above the ground where the plants leaves and flowers are found, but because we place food on the substrate, or on a tile or plate they are more likely to eat their substrate, in my opinion. There is no grass cover to the 'soil' in an indoor enclosure.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

To help the substrate to be a little firmer, pat it down with the palm of your hand.

I like to have it MOIST underneath, but not too wet on top. To achieve this, when it starts to dry out, I pour water down into a corner so it flows under, not on top.

She cannot right herself period, she will die, you must turn her over. She's a tortoise, not a box turtle. Tortoises mostly cannot turn back over and they die.

Thanks that's great, I added more sand but it wasn't firm enough. She couldn't get a foothold when she was on her back trying to self right herself. So now I've added more soil and it's probably 50\50. Should I wet it up quite often?

 

[Mark Cassell]

She cannot right herself period, she will die, you must turn her over. She's a tortoise, not a box turtle. Tortoises mostly cannot turn back over and they die.

She's good at it. All healthy horsfield tortoises should be able to self right unless they are unwell.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

She's good at it. All healthy horsfield tortoises should be able to self right unless they are unwell.

Oh, OK in my 20 years or so experience, I didn't know that, and have never seen it. good for it.

 

[Mark Cassell]

Oh, OK in my 20 years or so experience, I didn't know that, and have never seen it. good for it.

You learn something new everyday, as they say

 

[Yvonne G]

Maggie - please go take a chill pill.

Russian tortoises are very good at righting themselves.

 

[Mark Cassell]

Maggie - please go take a chill pill.

Russian tortoises are very good at righting themselves.

This is the problem, everyone is an expert! Including myself but there are so many different ways of doing things. Poor torts

 

[wellington]

This is the problem, everyone is an expert! Including myself but there are so many different ways of doing things. Poor torts

That's very true. However, back when I was a first timer, I learned fairly quickly that this forum has done its home work and has real experience. They raised tortoise old school. They learned through the years and found the newer ways work better. A lot of other sites, breeders, veteranarians are still stuck on old school. Be willing to learn the new better way. The things most of us won't use is because someone or some bodies have had experience with it causing problems.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I don't need to go take a chill pill, I made ONE bad post that was deleted, and a threat to be banned, so what I told Mark is the truth. I told you I understood, and then after that there was a threat to ban me. After I said I understood. You want to kick me off for ONE bad post????? See Mark, at least you now know what I have told you is the truth, and some moderators want me off here really bad. I am almost at the point where, I'm simply not going to give advice. I'll just go to the chat and talk nonsense as everyone else does. When I am wrong I generally admit it, but don't threaten to ban me after I have told you I understand.
I'd apologize to everyone, but my comments about Mark were deleted, so I don't feel that an apology is appropriate. But I don't stay where I'm not wanted adios

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I don't like heat mats much either.
i don't like the idea of 'basking from beneath'.
I've never used one but worry about tortoises (especially Russians!) digging down into it.
I understand it can be put under the liner or under the enclosure or even on the wall
But I also think it would dry out the substrate unnecessarily and add to the problems of keeping up the humidity.
As someone said, Testudo tortoises can tolerate considerable drops in night time temperature and a natural drop is to be encouraged.
It depends how cold it gets at night in your climate and whether or not you are going to hibernate the tortoise in the future.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Hi it's long leaf plantain

Neat, thanks!

 

[Mark Cassell]

No worries, they are everywhere in England

 

[Mark Cassell]

I don't like heat mats much either.
i don't like the idea of 'basking from beneath'.
I've never used one but worry about tortoises (especially Russians!) digging down into it.
I understand it can be put under the liner or under the enclosure or even on the wall
But I also think it would dry out the substrate unnecessarily and add to the problems of keeping up the humidity.
As someone said, Testudo tortoises can tolerate considerable drops in night time temperature and a natural drop is to be encouraged.
It depends how cold it gets at night in your climate and whether or not you are going to hibernate the tortoise in the future.

The mat is underneath the table, just in case, it's not on. Only when I was trying to dry the soil out because I don't know weather to have it wet or not.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

OK, it looks like I am really in trouble this time. So I will make a sincere apology to the forum as a whole, I don't want to be banned, I love the forum, and I realize because I am too frank or blunt at times several of the moderators want me gone. Sometimes people like Mark say something that sets me off and I say things that are not appropriate for this forum. For that I am genuinely sorry. I was wrong, I am not trying to say what I said was alright, it may have actually been correct, but sometimes I just need to keep those thoughts in my head.
So Mark, I really hope you get the information it seems like you are having trouble with, and I will leave this thread with good thoughts that Marks little guy lives a long and comfortable life. Bye