Not sure why tortoise died.

[Dosu]

Hello everyone,
My classmate recently, maybe a month ago, bought two tortoises from the flea market. The seller told him that they are both herman tortoises. However after two weeks one of the tortoises died. He is not sure why he died so when he asked me and sent me pictures of his tortoises and enclosure I immediately spotted mistakes. For example, both tortoises are living together (I ŵas told to never keep tortoises in pairs), he uses sand substrate or something similar from the pet store, there is no temperature gradient/control and that the enclosure is too small. He did however soak the tortoises everyday and put them in the sunlight half an hour every day. My theory is maybe that the tortoises arnt the same species and maybe one contracted a disease from the other? Or maybe the wrong temperatures killed the tortoise? Anyways, here's a pic if the tortoises and enclosure. It would be helpful if someone could discern weather they are really herman tortoises or if they are both the same species and also if there is other theories you might have. It would help alot so the same thing wont happen to the other tortoise.
Thanks! (sorry for messiness, wrote this on mobile phone)

BTW the darker toned tortoise died.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

There is not tortoise death without it feeling like there could have been 1000 things done better or different.

However if that tortoise died within about a month and the other one is still alive and doing reasonable well. It seems that your one idea may have some traction, that being one transferred some illness to the other. But that infers they were not housed together before, and I would guess it would be difficult to get a history of the tortoises from the vendor at the market.

Another possibility is that it was already under some sort of condition that set a strong path to death that may not have been apparent to your friend when they first bought the animal.

It's very unusual for a tortoise to one day be fine in every-way and then the next it is dead. I have seen this with disease transfer, it took less than three or so days and one tortoise had killed another with disease, both were in good health before.

Many people here on TFO might offer suggestions for better set up and care for the remaining tortoise based on what the care looks like in the pictures you have posted. It is difficult to talk a friend into changing their husbandry routine.

Maybe if you show interest, your firend will give you the tortoise and with the many good suggestions that will come forward here you'll have a great pet.

 

[wellington]

Besides much better housing, I can only say that it's too bad for your friends loss and I hope @HermanniChris can help with better set up and your friend will take the suggestions. The substrate for sure is bad, the enclosure way too small and was there any heat source at all, other then going outside?

 

[Yvonne G]

They both look like the same species to me.

It might be that those rocks being used as substrate caused an impaction.

Tortoises are usually sick for a very long time before they die. They hide their symptoms well.

We can give you pointers to share with your friend, however, without a necropsy, no one can know for sure what happened.

 

[HermanniChris]

So sorry to hear of the loss.

Well for starters, NEITHER of them are Hermann's tortoises. They are both Greek tortoises. As already stated the set up is wrong. Although these tortoises come from arid areas, what is commonly forgotten is the fact that they do need humidity and hydration. They are young animals with much growing ahead of them and so this puts them in a somewhat fragile stage still. Not to mention the fact that they came from a Flee market already puts them at great risk of being overly stressed. This means a probable outbreak of internal pathogens. Greek tortoises, particularly those of the T. graeca graeca subspecies (and other North African varieties) are extremely sensitive. They can dehydrate almost overnight if already subjected to stress. The stress level puts them in a very vulnerable state allowing other factors to consume them such as parasites and unfamiliar surroundings. Some tortoises are so stressed that they will sit in one corner and not even make it over to a water dish to drink even though they are dying of thirst.

Many Greek tortoises seem fine for some time and then simply expire. It's often attributed to these factors.

My suggestion would be to stop handling altogether for now. Soaks are important but not as important as a daily supply of fresh drinking water. If the animal doesn't go to the water dish on its own, then it can be softly moved into it. This is still better than removing it from its enclosure and placing it in another tub to soak since that is yet another stressful event for the animal.

We have several care sheets that some of us have spent our own personal time making for reasons such as these. You can check out the Hermann's, marginated and Greek tortoise care sheets as well as the Russian one too. These will give your friend some insight on proper substrate, lighting, humidity and temperatures.

 

[Pearly]

So sorry for your friend's loss of pet. That substrate looks like cat litter to me. Most of them are clay based, and bunch of chemicald, not good for baby tort when ingested.

 

[Dosu]

So sorry to hear of the loss.

Well for starters, NEITHER of them are Hermann's tortoises. They are both Greek tortoises. As already stated the set up is wrong. Although these tortoises come from arid areas, what is commonly forgotten is the fact that they do need humidity and hydration. They are young animals with much growing ahead of them and so this puts them in a somewhat fragile stage still. Not to mention the fact that they came from a Flee market already puts them at great risk of being overly stressed. This means a probable outbreak of internal pathogens. Greek tortoises, particularly those of the T. graeca graeca subspecies (and other North African varieties) are extremely sensitive. They can dehydrate almost overnight if already subjected to stress. The stress level puts them in a very vulnerable state allowing other factors to consume them such as parasites and unfamiliar surroundings. Some tortoises are so stressed that they will sit in one corner and not even make it over to a water dish to drink even though they are dying of thirst.

Many Greek tortoises seem fine for some time and then simply expire. It's often attributed to these factors.

My suggestion would be to stop handling altogether for now. Soaks are important but not as important as a daily supply of fresh drinking water. If the animal doesn't go to the water dish on its own, then it can be softly moved into it. This is still better than removing it from its enclosure and placing it in another tub to soak since that is yet another stressful event for the animal.

We have several care sheets that some of us have spent our own personal time making for reasons such as these. You can check out the Hermann's, marginated and Greek tortoise care sheets as well as the Russian one too. These will give your friend some insight on proper substrate, lighting, humidity and temperatures.

Thanks for the reply! My friend is changing his setup soon and is gonna follow your instructions. I don't think his tortoise died from dehydration though, since he soaked them everyday. Also he also just told me that, 3 days before the tortoise died, he kept making squeaking noises. Do you have an idea on why?

 

[Gillian M]

Extremely sorry to have just read about the death of the tort.

 

[Yvonne G]

Squeaking sometimes means a respiratory infection.

 

[HermanniChris]

Yes squeaking is a sure sign of acute pneumonia so that very well may have been the cause of death. Tell your friend to keep in mind that just because you are soaking them does not mean they are fully hydrating themselves.