Open top enclosure advise

[smr1014]

Hi All!!

Im new at keeping torts but trying my very best to give them what they need.

I made 2 open top enclosure for my torts. One is a 2x4ft for my hatchling (going 3months this month) Leopard tort and a 4x4ft for my juvenile Hermann tort. I have a Arcadia T5 UVB 14% set at around 20-24” high that runs for 2-3hrs mid day. 1 CHE 100W that runs for 24hrs on one side and 75W flood bulb that runs for 12-14hrs.

I worry about them not eating much especially the the hatchling leo tort, so I looked up what are the common causes and one of the this I found is that the temp inside the enclosure might be too cold. I checked the temp with my thermometer that the cool side goes around 65deg so I bought another CHE to put on the other side of the enclo to get at least 80deg on both sides which the better told me that would work best for the hatchling. I just set the other heater up yesterday before I went to bed and will check again later when I get home. Woke up late for work ? Now about my hermanns i read that she will be fine with having a 65deg lowest on the cool side. Do I need to put another heater for her? Another thing is humidity, I got a humidity gauge and the measure I get is not even close to 80% which is not advisable esp for the hatchling. I decided to get a humidifier fog machine to aid that problem, but I wanna know your thoughts about that, will that work.


Please help me with my setup, are they good enough or do I need to change something? I want to give them the best possible house for them even if its indoor cause I only live in an apartment, the weather here as well wont allow me to take them out for natural UV since its too cold.

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Humidifiers like that are not recomended, you really need a closed top enclosure to keep the temp & Humidity up....

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Here's another thread on the same topic....

Will this enclosure do?

Thank you. I will give one a try.

www.tortoiseforum.org

 

[wellington]

Leopard needs to never go below 80 and needs 80%humidity with 95-100 basking temp. Also needs a closed chamber.

Hermanns needs closed chamber, humidity 80% and basking 95-100. The day time temps other then the basking area needs to be 75-80 and can drop to upper 60's at night.
Get rid of the ramped water dish and switch to a low sided clay saucer before one drowns.

 

[Tom]

Hi All!!

Im new at keeping torts but trying my very best to give them what they need.

I made 2 open top enclosure for my torts. One is a 2x4ft for my hatchling (going 3months this month) Leopard tort and a 4x4ft for my juvenile Hermann tort. I have a Arcadia T5 UVB 14% set at around 20-24” high that runs for 2-3hrs mid day. 1 CHE 100W that runs for 24hrs on one side and 75W flood bulb that runs for 12-14hrs.

I worry about them not eating much especially the the hatchling leo tort, so I looked up what are the common causes and one of the this I found is that the temp inside the enclosure might be too cold. I checked the temp with my thermometer that the cool side goes around 65deg so I bought another CHE to put on the other side of the enclo to get at least 80deg on both sides which the better told me that would work best for the hatchling. I just set the other heater up yesterday before I went to bed and will check again later when I get home. Woke up late for work ? Now about my hermanns i read that she will be fine with having a 65deg lowest on the cool side. Do I need to put another heater for her? Another thing is humidity, I got a humidity gauge and the measure I get is not even close to 80% which is not advisable esp for the hatchling. I decided to get a humidifier fog machine to aid that problem, but I wanna know your thoughts about that, will that work.


Please help me with my setup, are they good enough or do I need to change something? I want to give them the best possible house for them even if its indoor cause I only live in an apartment, the weather here as well wont allow me to take them out for natural UV since its too cold.

View attachment 340032View attachment 340033View attachment 340034

You've made several serious mistakes that could really cause you a problem. I don't say this to be mean. I say it so you know what to fix and why.

1. Open topped enclosures don't work unless the room temp and humidity is what the tortoise needs. So your open enclosure is fine for the hermans, but much too cold and dry for the leopard. One night at 65 is enough to get them sick and kill them. If it has been this way for a while, you might have a problem. You need a large closed chamber with all the heating and lighting inside.
2. Humidifiers shouldn't be used in tortoise enclosures. Maintain humidity by reducing ventilation. A closed chamber in other words.
3. The soil you are using in the leopard enclosure looks like it has perlite in it. That will kill your tortoise. Soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. Use fine grade orchid bark for your baby leopard. I can't tell what the white bits are in the hermanni enclosure are, but soil should not be used as tortoise substrate. Soil is made from composted yard waste and there is no way to know what is in it. It could be something toxic. The additives, like perlite, are a whole nother problem.
4. Those ramped water bowls are fine for lizards and snakes but totally unsuitable for tortoises. They are a flipping and drowning hazard.
5. You need to use ceramic based light fixtures. The plastic bakelite ones fail when used day after day all day long with hot lights in them.
6. Never trust those clamps on the lamps. The clamps fail and this is how so many houses burn down. Happened to a co-worker of mine, and now she will never own an animal that needs a heat lamp. She's understandable all emotional about it, but the lesson is to just do it safely. Hang them from over head.

All of this and more is right here for the leopard:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

And right here for the hermanni:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[smr1014]

You've made several serious mistakes that could really cause you a problem. I don't say this to be mean. I say it so you know what to fix and why.

1. Open topped enclosures don't work unless the room temp and humidity is what the tortoise needs. So your open enclosure is fine for the hermans, but much too cold and dry for the leopard. One night at 65 is enough to get them sick and kill them. If it has been this way for a while, you might have a problem. You need a large closed chamber with all the heating and lighting inside.
2. Humidifiers shouldn't be used in tortoise enclosures. Maintain humidity by reducing ventilation. A closed chamber in other words.
3. The soil you are using in the leopard enclosure looks like it has perlite in it. That will kill your tortoise. Soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. Use fine grade orchid bark for your baby leopard. I can't tell what the white bits are in the hermanni enclosure are, but soil should not be used as tortoise substrate. Soil is made from composted yard waste and there is no way to know what is in it. It could be something toxic. The additives, like perlite, are a whole nother problem.
4. Those ramped water bowls are fine for lizards and snakes but totally unsuitable for tortoises. They are a flipping and drowning hazard.
5. You need to use ceramic based light fixtures. The plastic bakelite ones fail when used day after day all day long with hot lights in them.
6. Never trust those clamps on the lamps. The clamps fail and this is how so many houses burn down. Happened to a co-worker of mine, and now she will never own an animal that needs a heat lamp. She's understandable all emotional about it, but the lesson is to just do it safely. Hang them from over head.

All of this and more is right here for the leopard:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

And right here for the hermanni:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Thanks Tom!! Will Make necessary changes right away! Especially for the Leo tort.

The white bits you saw on my hermanni are cat seeds. I was trying to grow some on the enclosure. I also put away the ramp water bowl after trying it the fist night and just switched to my old terra cotta clay thingy.

My other question is that where can I get a fine grade orchid bark, any suggestions? Ive been searching online and the only thing I see were big bits.

Also after reading your comment I ordered this indoor greenhouse tent that I will use to cover my leo torts enclosure, then I dont have to redo everything thought it will arrive on sunday.


What other options can you suggest for substrate? I have coconut husk chip and Zoo Med Eco Earth Loose Coconut Fiber left overs from my first setup.

 

[smr1014]

Leopard needs to never go below 80 and needs 80%humidity with 95-100 basking temp. Also needs a closed chamber.

Hermanns needs closed chamber, humidity 80% and basking 95-100. The day time temps other then the basking area needs to be 75-80 and can drop to upper 60's at night.
Get rid of the ramped water dish and switch to a low sided clay saucer before one drowns.

Copy that sir! Thank you

 

[Tom]

Thanks Tom!! Will Make necessary changes right away! Especially for the Leo tort.

The white bits you saw on my hermanni are cat seeds. I was trying to grow some on the enclosure. I also put away the ramp water bowl after trying it the fist night and just switched to my old terra cotta clay thingy.

My other question is that where can I get a fine grade orchid bark, any suggestions? Ive been searching online and the only thing I see were big bits.

Also after reading your comment I ordered this indoor greenhouse tent that I will use to cover my leo torts enclosure, then I dont have to redo everything thought it will arrive on sunday.


What other options can you suggest for substrate? I have coconut husk chip and Zoo Med Eco Earth Loose Coconut Fiber left overs from my first setup.

View attachment 340035

The greenhouse tent should help to hold in heat and humidity.

Fine grade orchid bark can be purchased from chewy.com. Its called "Repti-bark". The 24 quart bags are about $18. Not cheap, but it lasts forever. Petco.com probably has it too.

Be sure that little leopard is warm tonight and every night from now on. Basking temp should be around 100, and its good if the ambient temp rises to around 90 during the day. No lower than 80 at night anywhere in the enclosure. They like heat. It helps keep them healthy. Soak daily in warm water for 30-40 minutes to ensure good hydration.

 

[smr1014]

The greenhouse tent should help to hold in heat and humidity.

Fine grade orchid bark can be purchased from chewy.com. Its called "Repti-bark". The 24 quart bags are about $18. Not cheap, but it lasts forever. Petco.com probably has it too.

Be sure that little leopard is warm tonight and every night from now on. Basking temp should be around 100, and its good if the ambient temp rises to around 90 during the day. No lower than 80 at night anywhere in the enclosure. They like heat. It helps keep them healthy. Soak daily in warm water for 30-40 minutes to ensure good hydration.

Is it still possible to plant something on their enclosure using the repti bark?

 

[wellington]

Use the coconut coir you have under the bark and plant in the coir. Things will grow, I have done it years ago.

 

[Tom]

Is it still possible to plant something on their enclosure using the repti bark?

Yes. Use pots will soil in them that the tortoises can't get to. Anything planted in the ground will be eaten or trampled.

 

[smr1014]

The greenhouse tent should help to hold in heat and humidity.

Fine grade orchid bark can be purchased from chewy.com. Its called "Repti-bark". The 24 quart bags are about $18. Not cheap, but it lasts forever. Petco.com probably has it too.

Be sure that little leopard is warm tonight and every night from now on. Basking temp should be around 100, and its good if the ambient temp rises to around 90 during the day. No lower than 80 at night anywhere in the enclosure. They like heat. It helps keep them healthy. Soak daily in warm water for 30-40 minutes to ensure good hydration.

Yes. Use pots will soil in them that the tortoises can't get to. Anything planted in the ground will be eaten or trampled.

Got it. One more thing. Why does my hermmi keeps pacing and trying to climb out of her enclo? Is the 4x4ft enclo not big enough for her or something is wrong? She looks healthy to me.

 

[smr1014]

Use the coconut coir you have under the bark and plant in the coir. Things will grow, I have done it years ago.

okay will try half with coir and the rest ill just put it in the pot. I dont think I have enough to fill 2X4ft

 

[smr1014]

Just want to update everyone that taught me what to do esp for my leo tort. Heres the new enclo, not quite done yet but almost. Made na new box from scratch, about 33x67inches roughly 3x6ft.

Any thoughts? I got 3 bags of repti-bark, will still be using the arcadia t5 ho 14% that I will probably run longer now since its sitting for about 30in high (no uvb meter yet, not enough budget atm) will have 2 ambient light 1 will have 75W arcadia flood bulb the other one is just a normal ikea 26W LED bulb the I will use arcadia dhp at 80W as a heater. Plus I will also add a petsafe water bowl so the water is circulating, I will add stones and slabs to make sure the water is not high enough to drown my baby.

 

[Tom]

Just want to update everyone that taught me what to do esp for my leo tort. Heres the new enclo, not quite done yet but almost. Made na new box from scratch, about 33x67inches roughly 3x6ft.

Any thoughts? I got 3 bags of repti-bark, will still be using the arcadia t5 ho 14% that I will probably run longer now since its sitting for about 30in high (no uvb meter yet, not enough budget atm) will have 2 ambient light 1 will have 75W arcadia flood bulb the other one is just a normal ikea 26W LED bulb the I will use arcadia dhp at 80W as a heater. Plus I will also add a petsafe water bowl so the water is circulating, I will add stones and slabs to make sure the water is not high enough to drown my baby.

Replace the black plastic bakelite fixtures with ceramic based fixtures. I get them at Home Depot for about $13. The plastic ones don't hold up when running all day every day. Best case it shorts out and just shuts off. Worse case, it could start a fire and burn your whole house down. I'm not being dramatic here. It happens all over the country regularly. I've had the plastic ones pop and spark right in front of me. Don't risk it.

Drop the UV tube down a bit with some light chain or cord. 20-24 inches would be better, and you can fine tune it when the meter comes.

26 watt LED? Are you sure it isn't a CFL? 26 watts sound too high for an LED of that type.

I don't like the DHPs. Better to use a CHE, and you will probably need a 150 watt for that size enclosure, and because the green house tent doesn't offer much insulation. DEFINITELY only run the DHP or CHE in a ceramic based fixture that is rated for at least 300 watts, even though your bulb will be less than that. Safety first. Use a thermostat to control the CHE.

Skip the circulating water bowl. They aren't suitable or safe for tortoises, and it will be fouled daily with substrate and/or poop. Just use terra cotta saucers sunk into the substrate for food and water, and dump rinse and refill daily. I like to have at least two of each bowl, so I can pull the dirty one out and drop a clean one in right away. Then I wash out the dirty one later and let it bake in the sun to disinfect it.

 

[smr1014]

Replace the black plastic bakelite fixtures with ceramic based fixtures. I get them at Home Depot for about $13. The plastic ones don't hold up when running all day every day. Best case it shorts out and just shuts off. Worse case, it could start a fire and burn your whole house down. I'm not being dramatic here. It happens all over the country regularly. I've had the plastic ones pop and spark right in front of me. Don't risk it.

Drop the UV tube down a bit with some light chain or cord. 20-24 inches would be better, and you can fine tune it when the meter comes.

26 watt LED? Are you sure it isn't a CFL? 26 watts sound too high for an LED of that type.

I don't like the DHPs. Better to use a CHE, and you will probably need a 150 watt for that size enclosure, and because the green house tent doesn't offer much insulation. DEFINITELY only run the DHP or CHE in a ceramic based fixture that is rated for at least 300 watts, even though your bulb will be less than that. Safety first. Use a thermostat to control the CHE.

Skip the circulating water bowl. They aren't suitable or safe for tortoises, and it will be fouled daily with substrate and/or poop. Just use terra cotta saucers sunk into the substrate for food and water, and dump rinse and refill daily. I like to have at least two of each bowl, so I can pull the dirty one out and drop a clean one in right away. Then I wash out the dirty one later and let it bake in the sun to disinfect it.

80% done at last. Got the ceramic light fixture and changed the plastic one. Put down the UV to 21inches and set the timer run turn in mid day for 3hrs. 100W CHE but might change it to 150W, i will check the temp tom morning when I wake up. I put the leo on her new enclo for dry run I have the CHE running and giving 80-90 deg on the spot. I have have the 4W LED bulb (i check the box it was E26 nit 26W, hahaha ?) that I hang close to the CHE and another basking flood bulb 75W at the other end. I spray water all over tonight and see what the humidity will be tom. I stick a humidity/thermometer from zoomed the cheap one not sure if its accurate but will give me numbers at least. I also have a dishpan to use as a “cave” shed for the tort, also spray water on the inside for humidity. I put her down earlier under the CHE and see where she will be tom. If temp ain't right I will put her back again to her small temp enclo and fix what needs to be fixed.

 

[Mrs.Jennifer]

You are really making progress!
Here is a link for the thermometer/hygrometer I use:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H1R0K68/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Keep up the good work!

 

[smr1014]

Good morning All,

I’d say the setup is a success. The humidity inside is above 80% base on the hygrometer. The temp inside is a little low around 75ish deg on one side. Under the CHE its going up to 100ish deg. Will have to raise it up a bit. Didnt have time today cause I woke up late again. I move the tort away though to the other side with by the flood bulb. Btw the temp under the flood bulb is around 95Ish.

Question is do I have to change the CHE to 150W, or the one I have right now will be fine? Also is the smell of the bark is something Im not used too. Any suggestion to eliminate that old odor?

 

[smr1014]

You are really making progress!
Here is a link for the thermometer/hygrometer I use:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H1R0K68/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Keep up the good work!

Thank you maam! Looks like the zoomed one is working. At least giving me the numbers I want to see. Hahaha

 

[Tom]

Good morning All,

I’d say the setup is a success. The humidity inside is above 80% base on the hygrometer. The temp inside is a little low around 75ish deg on one side. Under the CHE its going up to 100ish deg. Will have to raise it up a bit. Didnt have time today cause I woke up late again. I move the tort away though to the other side with by the flood bulb. Btw the temp under the flood bulb is around 95Ish.

Question is do I have to change the CHE to 150W, or the one I have right now will be fine? Also is the smell of the bark is something Im not used too. Any suggestion to eliminate that old odor?

Man, you are doing a great job. So many things done right now!

Here are my thoughts:
1. Raise the CHE up a bit and move it over to one side. Then add a second CHE (the 150) on the other side and run it through the same thermostat. This will more evenly distribute the heat all over the whole enclosure, and the thermostat will keep things from getting too hot.
2. The bark will smell strongest when its brand new out of the package. Within a week or two, its hardly noticeable.
3. The chain of zip ties for your UV tube shows ingenuity. What you will learn in a few weeks or months is that plastic zip ties degrade and break over time. If one side drops, it could break your expensive UV bulb. I don't think its a big fire hazard, but we don't want it down in the enclosure or broken. When you have time, replace those with something longer lasting and stronger. They sell sash chain and other light weight chains at Home Depot by the foot. They will even cut it to length for you if you don't have your own cutters at home.
4. Add a flat rock of some sort directly under the basking lamp. This keeps the nails filed down a bit, allows safe belly heat for the tortoise, and helps hold and disperse heat all around it better.
5. When you go to Home Depot, pick up four of their 6 inch terra cotta saucers. One for food and one for water, plus a spare for each. They only cost a couple of bucks. Sink two of them deep into the substrate so that the rim is almost level with the substrate. You can replace the bowls periodically and clean the used ones at your leisure.

You are creating a great tortoise environment there. Once you are all done, things will run smoothly and all you'll have left to do is feed your tortoise daily and enjoy your new pet while he grows into a beautiful healthy adult.