Opinion’s please

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello, some of you will recognise me as the girl trying to get my family members red foot tortoise upgraded, things were finally moving in a positive direction, I’d managed to convince her owner not to put her in anything smaller than an 8 foot. I think reality is hitting him of how big a viv she needs and how much of a challenge it could be to maintain.

Bottom line right now, this is my last ditch effort to show him why it would be both unfair and kind of cruel no? To place her in a 6 by 3(seems to be what he’s back tracking to) I’ve done everything from sending research, links to what she needs, to trying to sign him up to this forum himself, he’s not interested.
I need people to respond as to why, even if she stays a 10 inch tortoise, that space isn’t enough for her, He’ll ask every reptile shop going if she’ll be ok in a 6, they’ll tell him she will, he needs to know why that isn’t right? it could work for a few more years maybe? but I wouldn’t then see him upgrading her yet again down the line, it would seem such a waste of money.

I really thought we’d turned a corner and plan of action was set.
Im at a loss on what else to do other than sending peoples responses to not put her in something that size for the rest of her life. I’ve done my upmost to protect his feelings through all of this, even during my own frustrations, but idk what else could potentially hit home at this point.
I’m aware they may be no convincing him anymore, to which I’m obviously just going to have to let this all go. I just want to rest knowing I did do absolutely everything I could think of to help get her set up. Thanks guys, sorry this is a bit of a disappointing turn of events trying not to give up lol

 

[mojo_1]

Did you tell them it's like fitting the 400# person in a original mini Cooper ?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Did you tell them it's like fitting the 400# person in a original mini Cooper ?

Lol funny thing is it got to the point I didn’t need to! He seemed so fine about everything, said it all made sense, then since I left he’s back tracked completely😞but I loved that comment😂I shall be putting it to him!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Lol funny thing is it got to the point I didn’t need to! He seemed so fine about everything, said it all made sense, then since I left he’s back tracked completely😞but I loved that comment😂I shall be putting it to him!

I think the size is what’s throwing him off right now, far as I can tell anyway.
As much as he has quite a bit of reptile experience, he never owned a reptile species that require the space she needs before, none of us in the family have experience maintaining reptile enclosures(apart from him)let alone one the size she needs and the temps and humidity she needs, so all in all I think we’re all finding it a daunting task, which I completely understand, it’s all very unfortunate, but bottom line is, there’s a little creature here relying on us😣she’s never been upgraded, I think the least we can all do is try to learn how to to go about that? Heck she’s not mine and I’m still more that willing! Just upsetting her owner doesn’t seem happy about it

 

[wellington]

Plain and simple, it's animal cruelty!!!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Plain and simple, it's animal cruelty!!!

He needs to hear this, it’s just whether he’ll believe it, I’ll be taking screenshots, I can’t dress things up here for him😕

 

[Lyn W]

Well done for trying to improve the torts life.
You could tell him that he is risking all sorts of health problems if the enclosure is too small. Torts are wandering creatures and need to be able to roam for digestion and for the digestive system to work correctly, and also for bone and muscle health. As I understand it, poor living conditions is one of the factors along with poor nutrition that could result in MBD (metabolic bone disease) which is very painful for torts.
I think he needs to realise that tortoise vets are few and far between in the UK and they and medicines can be very expensive so providing the correct living space is not only kinder for the tort but could save him a lot of money in vets fees.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

She takes almost the same floor area as an adult human (1 sq.ft.) and her enclosure is 4 times smaller than a standard prison cell.

In the wild tortoises don't sit under the bush waiting for prey. They walk miles foraging for food and that even defines their physiology to some extent - they can't digest food without moving.

My redfoot is half of the size of yours. From watching her in the enclosure it's obvious, that 3x6 is enough only for a "short stay", like a motel room.

P.S. - Lyn W said it much better than I did

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Well done for trying to improve the torts life.
You could tell him that he is risking all sorts of health problems if the enclosure is too small. Torts are wandering creatures and need to be able to roam for digestion and for the digestive system to work correctly, and also for bone and muscle health. As I understand it, poor living conditions is one of the factors along with poor nutrition that could result in MBD (metabolic bone disease) which is very painful for torts.
I think he needs to realise that tortoise vets are few and far between in the UK and they and medicines can be very expensive so providing the correct living space is not only kinder for the tort but could save him a lot of money in vets fees.

This definitely makes me concerned, I’m worried she’s never had the ability to roam enough, she gets diarrhoea more than she should(I mean never is the goal right😞)it’s improved a lot since improving her diet but I’ve always been aware it’s not normal her poop isn’t always healthy, I’ve tried offering her some dried tortoise herbs in with her salad which also helps but she doesn’t always eat it, she walks with her shell completely off the ground so I don’t have a current concern for MBD? That’s certainly something concerning me down the line now though😣

 

[mojo_1]

This definitely makes me concerned, I’m worried she’s never had the ability to roam enough, she gets diarrhoea more than she should(I mean never is the goal right😞)it’s improved a lot since improving her diet but I’ve always been aware it’s not normal her poop isn’t always healthy, I’ve tried offering her some dried tortoise herbs in with her salad which also helps but she doesn’t always eat it, she walks with her shell completely off the ground so I don’t have a current concern for MBD? That’s certainly something concerning me down the line now though😣

If she starts dragging her shell when walking everywhere it could be other things making her not feel good too.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

She takes almost the same floor area as an adult human (1 sq.ft.) and her enclosure is 4 times smaller than a standard prison cell.

In the wild tortoises don't sit under the bush waiting for prey. They walk miles foraging for food and that even defines their physiology to some extent - they can't digest food without moving.

My redfoot is half of the size of yours. From watching her in the enclosure it's obvious, that 3x6 is enough only for a "short stay", like a motel room.

P.S. - Lyn W said it much better than I did

I’ve always been worried about potential digestion issues since knowing her(nearly 3 years)me being naïve when first meeting her, I knew nothing about reptiles or caring for a tortoise, I certainly never questioned why her poop would sometimes be runny😂never thought I’d need to lol, just presumed they knew exactly what was what. I’m glad I randomly starting googling them one night! even if I’m pushed from the equation in the future, I’ve improved her quality of care to some extent😕I wish I could do more

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

If she starts dragging her shell when walking everywhere it could be other things making her not feel good too.

Thankfully I’ve never seen her do that but I hear what you’re saying, horrible😞i get nervous thinking of her potentially being poorly one day or even a minor thing that needs treating, I don’t know if there’s an appropriate vet in the area, she’s never been to one far as I know, I hope she’s stays fine❤️

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

From the photos she looks much better than many captive redfoots: almost no pyramiding, skin is not too dry and so. I think it's not likely she has MBD. Without doubt, her keeper (or keepers ) have done a good job here.

Runny stool has many causes and lack of movement is only one of them. Low temperatures and low fiber diet are the common reasons too.

She has outgrown her current enclosure. Their native foraging ranges and movement speeds give some hints on the enclosure size as well:

Editing Red-footed tortoise - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

From the photos she looks much better than many captive redfoots: almost no pyramiding, skin is not too dry and so. I think it's not likely she has MBD. Without doubt, her keeper (or keepers ) have done a good job here.

Runny stool has many causes and lack of movement is only one of them. Low temperatures and low fiber diet are the common reasons too.

She has outgrown her current enclosure. Their native foraging ranges and movement speeds give some hints on the enclosure size as well:

Editing Red-footed tortoise - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yeah I’m definitely not overly concerned about her current body condition! Her pyramiding is mild and she definitely measures on the smaller side, but overall she’s a very good looking little tort these days!😊her skin has come a long way, she was kept too dry for a long time but the difference there was almost instant once we got it rectified! Couldn’t believe how bright she was❤️Yeah I definitely don’t think she has MBD either, her overall care wasn’t a complete abysmal before I met her don’t get me wrong😂they obviously love and care for her, there were definitely some major husbandry issues they’d been misled on, that needed fixing to help her thrive, she didn’t used to look very well with her skin.
She’s at a point now where she’s nice and healthy, least in my opinion😊but I do worry about the long term in that regard, when it comes to this life upgrade, there’s no way he’s gonna want to go through all this again so feels like it’s kinda now or never to get this set up right for her😕
Yee there’s possibly a few things that could potentially be causing it, maybe the lack of movement and maybe I need to suggest we try harder getting some more fibre into her? I’ve been told that’s what the dry herbs are for? Has anyone got a good recommendation for a herb mix? I’m wondering if the one we’re feeding now and again isn’t good enough

 

[mojo_1]

kapidolofarms.com has a great variety of dried herbs if you don't have them locally.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

kapidolofarms.com has a great variety of dried herbs if you don't have them locally.

Thank you! I’ll have a look if there’s similar mixes in the uk😊

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

It doesn’t help when this is one of the first things that comes up when googling ‘can a red foot be kept in a 6 by 3’ 😂
Then that info right underneath🤣feels like a game of back n forth information😬
Maybe I need to step back, I’ve probably spent way more time on this entire situation then any sane person would😂
I think I’ve done all I can😣any updates I’ll put onto the upgrade thread, if he comes round I can get back to asking advice on the set up, if not, I truly appreciate everything you guys have taught me! I’ll continue to try and learn, and care for her when I can, if he’ll let me lol❤️

 

[BB123]

5 Dried Leaf & Flower Mix - 100g | All Things Tortoise

A blended mix of 5 dried leaves and flowers that can supplement a fresh diet. CornflowerRaspberry leavesChamomileBlackberry leavesEchinacea These can be soaked in cool water for a few minutes to soften for small tortoises and is designed to be sprinkled over their fresh foods. Suitable for all...

www.allthingstortoise.com

10 Dried Leaf & Flower Premium Mix | All Things Tortoise

A blended mix of 10 dried leaves and flowers that can supplement a fresh diet. Rose flowersNettle leavesDandelion leavesHibiscus flowersLavendar flowersChicoryPlantain leavesMallowLinden leavesCalendula flowers These can be soaked in cool water for a few minutes to soften for small tortoises and...

www.allthingstortoise.com

I use these dried forage mixes for my Horsfield every day I soak them with some water then mix his food for the day in with them and he seems to like it. They also sell seed mixes to grow your own food which I've had pretty good luck with growing too.

They also do free delivery on everything.

Hopefully this helps in your dried forage search.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

5 Dried Leaf & Flower Mix - 100g | All Things Tortoise

A blended mix of 5 dried leaves and flowers that can supplement a fresh diet. CornflowerRaspberry leavesChamomileBlackberry leavesEchinacea These can be soaked in cool water for a few minutes to soften for small tortoises and is designed to be sprinkled over their fresh foods. Suitable for all...

www.allthingstortoise.com

10 Dried Leaf & Flower Premium Mix | All Things Tortoise

A blended mix of 10 dried leaves and flowers that can supplement a fresh diet. Rose flowersNettle leavesDandelion leavesHibiscus flowersLavendar flowersChicoryPlantain leavesMallowLinden leavesCalendula flowers These can be soaked in cool water for a few minutes to soften for small tortoises and...

www.allthingstortoise.com

I use these dried forage mixes for my Horsfield every day I soak them with some water then mix his food for the day in with them and he seems to like it. They also sell seed mixes to grow your own food which I've had pretty good luck with growing too.

They also do free delivery on everything.

Hopefully this helps in your dried forage search.

Ooo thank you!! I’ll have a look into the ingredients for her😊and maybe soaking the herb mix will be more enticing for her! Thanks for the tip! She loves her dandelion leaves! They’re so small in winter, I might have a go at my own indoor herb garden project and see what I can come up with!❤️I keep lots of indoor plants so may as well have a stab at it haha, I can just pass them along to them😊

 

[mojo_1]

It doesn’t help when this is one of the first things that comes up when googling ‘can a red foot be kept in a 6 by 3’ 😂
Then that info right underneath🤣feels like a game of back n forth information😬
Maybe I need to step back, I’ve probably spent way more time on this entire situation then any sane person would😂
I think I’ve done all I can😣any updates I’ll put onto the upgrade thread, if he comes round I can get back to asking advice on the set up, if not, I truly appreciate everything you guys have taught me! I’ll continue to try and learn, and care for her when I can, if he’ll let me lol❤️

That is the equivalent of getting medical advice from webMD.
Or if you are a car person asking what type of oil is best for your engine.
Going to a seafood restaurant and ordering a burger and fries.