paint/wallpaper

rafsmum

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Hi
I posted at Christmas about a redfoot i had acquired ( 7 yrs old)
he came in a small enclosure a small tortoise table that he has lived in for 4 years
We do take him out each day for a wander round and a fuss ( which he seems to love)
I want to make a bigger enclosure but space is an issue
I decided that we have a recess under the stairs and whilst it isnt very big it is twice the size of his current pen.
As my hubby is not very handy i planned to do this;
I got an old tv unit from freecyle and dismantled it. its the same wood as the tort table.
so one piece will go along the floor and then i cut 8 inches off the width of a second piece, which I will join to the first which brings it out just past where the stairs finishes and gives me the 8" high piece that will be left to use along the front. Then i will put his current table with hide inside this one and remove the glass.
A few questions. Am Ok to leave the back and side without putting wood along there, , which means the skirting board and wall form the back and one side. . The skirting was last painted a few yrs ago with water based paint. The wallpaper was put up at the same time.

This would make it a lot easier, and also give him a little more space, but obviously i do not want to harm him

can I use silicone to seal the gap between the 2 pieces of the base provided i leave it a week or 2 before putting my tort in?

Thirdly is it ok having a solid front rather than the glass as i would not be able to put glass along the front.

Lastly, the person i got him from said she would mind him when we go away on holiday, but i would not be able to take the new area. Would he be ok just staying in his current set up for a week every now and then while we were away or would it stress him?
Oh and can I use a thick plastic sheet on the bottom to stop the wood going soft or is that dangerous? i am using coco coir as bedding
here he is after a bath having his head stroked which he loves!

Many thanks
 

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Tom

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Red foot tortoise need warm humid conditions year round. There is no way to do that with an oopepn topped enclosure, and all the electrically generated heat in an open topped enclosure really dries them out. Because of their humidity and moisture requirements, you need a waterproof closed chamber enclosure. A heavy sheet of plastic might help, but one little pinhole anywhere from the tortoise's nails or a decoration, or anything else that could make a tiny hole and water will seep through, be trapped and rot the floor and walls.
 

rafsmum

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Red foot tortoise need warm humid conditions year round. There is no way to do that with an oopepn topped enclosure, and all the electrically generated heat in an open topped enclosure really dries them out. Because of their humidity and moisture requirements, you need a waterproof closed chamber enclosure. A heavy sheet of plastic might help, but one little pinhole anywhere from the tortoise's nails or a decoration, or anything else that could make a tiny hole and water will seep through, be trapped and rot the floor and walls.
Hi he has lived in this enclosure for 4 yrs and had pellets as bedding and bathed once a week. I am doing all i can but cant do everything. There will be a roof over him, as the stairs will be over his head. I do spray his bedding each day.
 

rafsmum

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I was asking abut the plastic sheet asking is it safe? will it garm him?

Could i buy a sheet of this and suspend it from under the stairs to give half of the enclosure some humidity? or should it all be covered? can i use this though? How high over the enclosure should it be?
If someone could answer my other questions alsoi would be grateful. Thanks
 

Tom

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Hi he has lived in this enclosure for 4 yrs and had pellets as bedding and bathed once a week. I am doing all i can but cant do everything. There will be a roof over him, as the stairs will be over his head. I do spray his bedding each day.
I don't intend to sound rude, and my intent is not to upset you, but you are not housing this tortoise well, and your new plan isn't any better. Your space concerns and/or budget issues do not change the biology of this tortoise. The tortoise needs what it needs, and it needs warm humid conditions 24/7/365. Because it has managed to survive for years in the wrong conditions is not a good reason to continue with the wrong conditions.

I am not attacking you, but I'm also not going to tell you that what you are doing is okay because its the best you can do. If any person is unable or unwilling to meet an animals basic needs for space and housing, for any reason, they should give that animal to someone who can and will. I don't want you to get rid of your tortoise. I want you to devise a spacious housing plan that will meet your tortoises biological needs. Your feelings on this matter and my feelings on this matter are secondary to taking proper care of this tortoise.
 

rafsmum

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I am not disputing that is what would have been best but am concerned about suddenly changing his environment.
We all love him now and could not give himup but i was not told all this by his previous owner. she just said he needed pelletas for bedding, feed him every other day and bath once a week. I have been thinking about what i can do since tour reply and i am thinking i could try and make the existing house covered and humid, then let the extension to it be open topped. But i will need some help as to how to achieve this. I probably would not have taken him ifid known how complex his needs where, but now we have him we adore him
I do still need to know the answers to the other things though before i can proceed. Thanks
 

Tom

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would it be safe to put this over the existing table then leave access to the extension?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07JKZ5TSV/?tag=

I do need advice on the wallpaper/paint though please and the other things i asked
The green house tent will be a big improvement. If you can run a ceramic heating element on a thermostat inside there, you'll be doing great. Then all you need is some light, and a UV tube if you want one.

I've tried and tried to make enclosures work with wood, and it just doesn't work well. After years of premature failures and loads of rot, I finally switched to expanded PVC enclosures. Totally waterproof and impervious to rot when kept wet or damp all the time. I have no idea how available this material is in the UK, but they use it at sign making places here in the US. I'm sorry to report that I could not find and easy solution to paint on or lay down. Instead of trying to make other things work, I just switched to using what does work.

@Yossarian is in the UK and has the name of a cage maker there. Prices were pretty reasonable even for very large enclosures.

I can see you are feeling a little overwhelmed, but I promise you, once you get the right enclosure and get the temperatures and equipment dialed in, this whole tortoise experience will change and be so pleasant and easy. Red foots in particular are pretty easy since they don't need a basking area, and you can just set a thermostat to the right temp, and leave it at that. I hope we can help you get there.
 

rafsmum

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Location (City and/or State)
wirral uk
The green house tent will be a big improvement. If you can run a ceramic heating element on a thermostat inside there, you'll be doing great. Then all you need is some light, and a UV tube if you want one.

I've tried and tried to make enclosures work with wood, and it just doesn't work well. After years of premature failures and loads of rot, I finally switched to expanded PVC enclosures. Totally waterproof and impervious to rot when kept wet or damp all the time. I have no idea how available this material is in the UK, but they use it at sign making places here in the US. I'm sorry to report that I could not find and easy solution to paint on or lay down. Instead of trying to make other things work, I just switched to using what does work.

@Yossarian is in the UK and has the name of a cage maker there. Prices were pretty reasonable even for very large enclosures.

I can see you are feeling a little overwhelmed, but I promise you, once you get the right enclosure and get the temperatures and equipment dialed in, this whole tortoise experience will change and be so pleasant and easy. Red foots in particular are pretty easy since they don't need a basking area, and you can just set a thermostat to the right temp, and leave it at that. I hope we can help you get there.
Hi i already have heat and a lamp. I assume i will leave the lamp under the greenhouse cover. he has had the heat pad and the lamp in his set up for the past 4 years at least. Th wood i will use is the same as for his current set up, which isnt damaged, but of course she used dry pellets and not coco coir. I mixed coco coir with the pellets first time as didnt want to upset him too much with change. I am changing him today and using just coco coir but will put plastic along the bottom to protect (IF THAT IS SAFE???? No one has confirned!!)

Is it safe to use normal silicone to join the 2 pieces???? I will ensure it is dry and non smelling before he uses it

Will the paint/wallpaper around the edge be safe????

And the third question I asked, is it ok for the front to be solid, not glass see through?

Thanks
 

Tom

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Hi i already have heat and a lamp. I assume i will leave the lamp under the greenhouse cover. he has had the heat pad and the lamp in his set up for the past 4 years at least. Th wood i will use is the same as for his current set up, which isnt damaged, but of course she used dry pellets and not coco coir. I mixed coco coir with the pellets first time as didnt want to upset him too much with change. I am changing him today and using just coco coir but will put plastic along the bottom to protect (IF THAT IS SAFE???? No one has confirned!!)

Is it safe to use normal silicone to join the 2 pieces???? I will ensure it is dry and non smelling before he uses it

Will the paint/wallpaper around the edge be safe????

And the third question I asked, is it ok for the front to be solid, not glass see through?

Thanks
This species doesn't need a heat lamp, and no tortoise should be on a heat pad indoors. It isn't safe.

You can't mix damp coco coir and dry pellets. The pellets will mold and disintigrate. Coco coir isn't a good substrate for a larger RF. Too messy. Fine grade orchid bark works best.

Plastic on the bottom should be safe, but not very effective. There will always be pin holes and the water will then be trapped under the plastic.

GE silicone I is totally safe and inert when cured.

The paint and wallpaper will be damaged by moist substrate as will everything behind the paint and wallpaper. Mold will form.

Front can be solid.
 

rafsmum

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why is the heat pad unsafe? Its behind a glass screen at the back, ( he is not "on" it) and is barely warm, id guess at a few watts
why should he not have a lamp? :/
whAt am i supposed to use if he doesnt have these things?
i see your point about the skirting, so i will have to put somethign against it.
i was advised on this forum to use coco coir for him which is why i bought a large brick. apparently it helps with humidity
No moulding of current substrate yet but only been in 2/3 weeks and i m doing a complete change tonight
 

rafsmum

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Location (City and/or State)
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i am going to line the walls with silver bubble wrap stuff by the way to retain heat
 

rafsmum

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Location (City and/or State)
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Can someone please advise what heat/lamp I should use.
I m halfwy through making my larger enclosure, which i will be placing the existing closure inside and removing the glass front screen. I have also ordered a larger water bowl as i feel the one he has is too small for him to climb into fully. he has probaly had it since he was tiny.
I am getting "cloche" to go over thetop as i feel it will be easier to make to size
The new enclosure will only be 4 foot x 3 foot but it is still more than double the size of his existing one so will be better for now. we do take him out each day for a walk around our room and also give him a bath in the big bath most days where he can walk around.
Come summer i will be making an area in our back garden where he can go outside during the day.
So i am aware that the indoor set up will not be as big as some of you would like but I am makingn improvements and he will have far more than he had, he also seems very happy with us and is somewhat affectionate. So i would be grateful for advice on what I have asked rather than being told he needs a bigger enclosure. I do not have the room inside, but s i sid come summer he will have one outside. He is not as active atm anyway

This is the cloche i will put over. its 45cm high so will be enough room for a lamp to stay at the side where it is now
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2X-POLY-...W-PROTECT-PLANT-1-5M-X-45-X-42cm/264680965494. I will cut it down to size. It will not cover the entire enclosure but will leave some space for him to be not covered, which will then not be such major shock to him. he doesnt appear to like change too much. he was not impressed when i changed his bed to coco coir from bagged pellets!

So, will that cloche be ok over his existing home which is only 90cm x 45cm and leave the rest open

Which lamp/heat emitter should i get and how would it work? (need to know wattage etc)

plus the coco coir is very damp. Should it be like that? I m worried about him gettign shell rot when he has always had a bone dry substrate. you cannot ring any wet out of it and it does dry up a bit under the lamp but is damp in his hide. (there is a very low watt heat pad behind a glass screen on the wall of his hide)

I do want to try and get things sorted for him so would be grateful for the advice. I still am unsure what exactly to get

Thanks
 
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