Planning an outdoor winter sulcata shed

[vladimir]

Hello,

In the spirit of my previous thread planning an indoor enclosure:

Planning new indoor enclosure

I figured I'd start my own thread because I'm sure I will have tons of questions. Vladimir is going on 3 years old now and is outgrowing his current indoor enclosure, a 300 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. I'd like to build him a permanent indoor enclosure in a spare room, and we're fortunate to...

tortoiseforum.org

It's been 5 years since Vladimir moved into that enclosure, and it's clear he's outgrown it now. I'm hoping to buy/build a shed to convert to an appropriate winter enclosure for him and would appreciate any advice or suggestions for the project. I plan to update this as things progress (and come back with more questions!)

Some background information - the existing enclosure (indoors) is 8 foot x 16 foot. There are few large flat sections of land on the property on which to build the shed, so it's likely that the shed will also be 8 foot x 16 foot. I'm hoping that by having a door that he can use to go in and out on his own (and check the weather) will allow him to be more comfortable in that same size enclosure. This is being constructed in Pennsylvania, and I hope to be able to maintain 70-80F within the shed if the temperature drops to below 20F.

I'm thinking of something like this if I get something prebuilt:


Preparing the Site
I'm guessing the best base for it is a proper gravel pad. I plan to find a contractor to do this work. Is there anything special I need to know?

Insulation
What's the best way to insulate the shed for tortoise occupancy? I was considering using spray foam insulation, assuming that would provide the most complete coverage. I know the tortoise can't be allowed access to the harden spray foam insulation, so I'm considering putting plywood along the walls for the first 3 feet or so to hide the spray foam insulation from tortoise destruction. If we don't use spray foam, I'm guessing the next best way would be to use the rigid foam insulation used in Tom's nightboxes, and cover everything with plywood and seal it?

What about insulating the ceiling? and how should ventilation be handled? Most of the shed models I've seen have some sort of ventilation component.

How about insulating the floors? If I have a shed delivered I don't believe I'd be able to insulate underneath the floor, so I might need to add a layer of insulation on top of the floor and add another layer of plywood?

What do I need to know about vapor barriers?

Tortoise Customizations
Assuming I have a prebuilt shed delivered, it will need to be modified to install a tortoise door. The 18" x 26" door in Vlad's current boxes is clearly not going to be large enough - how big should I go? @Turtulas-Len how large is the door for Walker's home?

Electricity
I'm planning to have an electrician wire everything up. I'd like to have multiple oil filled radiators inside, on separate circuits in case the breaker trips, hopefully it would be a fail-safe to prevent all heat from turning off. I'm also planning on installing UV lights, flood lights, and a Kane mat / RHP area inside.

Roof
Is there any pros/cons to a shingle roof vs a metal roof?


I'm sure I have more questions, but this is a start

 

[Len B]

Walkers main door opening is 3x3ft. I made it that large for me to get inside. I have removable insulated panels with different size door openings to use at different times of the year. Here is what's being used now Its opening measures 28wide by 21 tall. It's tight for him but I put it on early last fall to make sure he could use it this winter. Will enlarge it over summer.

 

[Len B]

About preparing the site. If you buy a premade shed and the floor joists aren't treated lumber you don't want it sitting directly on the ground. Termites. If you raise it up put termite barriers on top of each of what ever is used to hold it up. Without the barriers they can build tunnels straight up to get to the shed.

 

[vladimir]

Thanks Len, appreciate your advice as always. Can you share a little more about the insulation in Walker's home? What kind of insulation are you using, and how thick is it? Did you insulate the floor also?

Tagging a few more people for advice - @wellington @Yvonne G @Maggie3fan @NorCal tortoise guy - any experience with tortoise shed preparation to share?

Thanks!! ❤️

 

[wellington]

Thanks Len, appreciate your advice as always. Can you share a little more about the insulation in Walker's home? What kind of insulation are you using, and how thick is it? Did you insulate the floor also?

Tagging a few more people for advice - @wellington @Yvonne G @Maggie3fan @NorCal tortoise guy - any experience with tortoise shed preparation to share?

Thanks!! ❤️

A portion of my shed is actually a third stall of a garage that we had the builders separate from the two stall portion. Mine sits on a cement slab. I then had builders put down a wood floor with insulation under it. Also insulated walls and ceiling.

 

[Len B]

The floor is insulated with ridged urethane board with a foil vapor barrier. All my tortoise house floors are insulated with a type of insulation that isn't affected by moisture. Styrofoam, urethane, foam glass, cellular. Walkers floor is 6 inches thick. The walls are 6 inches also insulated with ridged fiberglass board with vapor barriers. The roof is 4 inches thick insulated with ridged mineral wool board with no vapor barrier. The ceiling is roll aluminum to help keep moisture in. The floor has roll PVC on the outside bottom to help keep ground moisture and termites out. So far everything seems to be holding up, except for some carpenter bee damage on the front truss. I built his house in 2008.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Hello,

In the spirit of my previous thread planning an indoor enclosure:

Planning new indoor enclosure

I figured I'd start my own thread because I'm sure I will have tons of questions. Vladimir is going on 3 years old now and is outgrowing his current indoor enclosure, a 300 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. I'd like to build him a permanent indoor enclosure in a spare room, and we're fortunate to...

tortoiseforum.org

It's been 5 years since Vladimir moved into that enclosure, and it's clear he's outgrown it now. I'm hoping to buy/build a shed to convert to an appropriate winter enclosure for him and would appreciate any advice or suggestions for the project. I plan to update this as things progress (and come back with more questions!)

Some background information - the existing enclosure (indoors) is 8 foot x 16 foot. There are few large flat sections of land on the property on which to build the shed, so it's likely that the shed will also be 8 foot x 16 foot. I'm hoping that by having a door that he can use to go in and out on his own (and check the weather) will allow him to be more comfortable in that same size enclosure. This is being constructed in Pennsylvania, and I hope to be able to maintain 70-80F within the shed if the temperature drops to below 20F.

I'm thinking of something like this if I get something prebuilt:
View attachment 354775

Preparing the Site
I'm guessing the best base for it is a proper gravel pad. I plan to find a contractor to do this work. Is there anything special I need to know?

Insulation
What's the best way to insulate the shed for tortoise occupancy? I was considering using spray foam insulation, assuming that would provide the most complete coverage. I know the tortoise can't be allowed access to the harden spray foam insulation, so I'm considering putting plywood along the walls for the first 3 feet or so to hide the spray foam insulation from tortoise destruction. If we don't use spray foam, I'm guessing the next best way would be to use the rigid foam insulation used in Tom's nightboxes, and cover everything with plywood and seal it?

What about insulating the ceiling? and how should ventilation be handled? Most of the shed models I've seen have some sort of ventilation component.

How about insulating the floors? If I have a shed delivered I don't believe I'd be able to insulate underneath the floor, so I might need to add a layer of insulation on top of the floor and add another layer of plywood?

What do I need to know about vapor barriers?

Tortoise Customizations
Assuming I have a prebuilt shed delivered, it will need to be modified to install a tortoise door. The 18" x 26" door in Vlad's current boxes is clearly not going to be large enough - how big should I go? @Turtulas-Len how large is the door for Walker's home?

Electricity
I'm planning to have an electrician wire everything up. I'd like to have multiple oil filled radiators inside, on separate circuits in case the breaker trips, hopefully it would be a fail-safe to prevent all heat from turning off. I'm also planning on installing UV lights, flood lights, and a Kane mat / RHP area inside.

Roof
Is there any pros/cons to a shingle roof vs a metal roof?


I'm sure I have more questions, but this is a start

here is my 20'x12' tort shed. It used to be a gardeners shed until I got it...Styrofoam sheeting is under the floor, that pink fluffy stuff in the walls and ceiling. I have ONE radiator heater...3 hanging uvb lights and 3 heat bulbs. The temperature stays 85-90 degrees, even with ice and sno outside.

Here's the shed, showing a doggie door (tort door) and the people door.
here's the sleeping box with a Kane heat mat in a corner
here is the heater, up out of the way and you can see the vaporizer too and in the electric strip is the controller for the pig blanket...
there's a tort table in it for visitors and fosters...
and 2 spots under that table for more torts. There's doggie doors on 2 sides of the shed.
So that's mine...the electric is on a separate line from the house. The roof is metal and the shed gets fairly hot. And we made the window too small.
The shed belongs to Mary Knobbins, a female Sulcata about 45 pounds. You might think about planting Rose of Sharon and grapes for the leafs
I hope this helps

 

[Yvonne G]

This thread gives a play by play of my sulcata shed: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/dudleys-rebuild.111350/

 

[Ray--Opo]

Hello,

In the spirit of my previous thread planning an indoor enclosure:

Planning new indoor enclosure

I figured I'd start my own thread because I'm sure I will have tons of questions. Vladimir is going on 3 years old now and is outgrowing his current indoor enclosure, a 300 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. I'd like to build him a permanent indoor enclosure in a spare room, and we're fortunate to...

tortoiseforum.org

It's been 5 years since Vladimir moved into that enclosure, and it's clear he's outgrown it now. I'm hoping to buy/build a shed to convert to an appropriate winter enclosure for him and would appreciate any advice or suggestions for the project. I plan to update this as things progress (and come back with more questions!)

Some background information - the existing enclosure (indoors) is 8 foot x 16 foot. There are few large flat sections of land on the property on which to build the shed, so it's likely that the shed will also be 8 foot x 16 foot. I'm hoping that by having a door that he can use to go in and out on his own (and check the weather) will allow him to be more comfortable in that same size enclosure. This is being constructed in Pennsylvania, and I hope to be able to maintain 70-80F within the shed if the temperature drops to below 20F.

I'm thinking of something like this if I get something prebuilt:
View attachment 354775

Preparing the Site
I'm guessing the best base for it is a proper gravel pad. I plan to find a contractor to do this work. Is there anything special I need to know?

Insulation
What's the best way to insulate the shed for tortoise occupancy? I was considering using spray foam insulation, assuming that would provide the most complete coverage. I know the tortoise can't be allowed access to the harden spray foam insulation, so I'm considering putting plywood along the walls for the first 3 feet or so to hide the spray foam insulation from tortoise destruction. If we don't use spray foam, I'm guessing the next best way would be to use the rigid foam insulation used in Tom's nightboxes, and cover everything with plywood and seal it?

What about insulating the ceiling? and how should ventilation be handled? Most of the shed models I've seen have some sort of ventilation component.

How about insulating the floors? If I have a shed delivered I don't believe I'd be able to insulate underneath the floor, so I might need to add a layer of insulation on top of the floor and add another layer of plywood?

What do I need to know about vapor barriers?

Tortoise Customizations
Assuming I have a prebuilt shed delivered, it will need to be modified to install a tortoise door. The 18" x 26" door in Vlad's current boxes is clearly not going to be large enough - how big should I go? @Turtulas-Len how large is the door for Walker's home?

Electricity
I'm planning to have an electrician wire everything up. I'd like to have multiple oil filled radiators inside, on separate circuits in case the breaker trips, hopefully it would be a fail-safe to prevent all heat from turning off. I'm also planning on installing UV lights, flood lights, and a Kane mat / RHP area inside.

Roof
Is there any pros/cons to a shingle roof vs a metal roof?


I'm sure I have more questions, but this is a start

Have you looked at sheds made out of plastic/vinyl or pvc? You definitely want it raised off the ground a few inches. One thing nice about metal roof is if the snow gets to deep on the roof. It will slide off. If you go with a shed, you could build a ceiling about 4' up from the floor and insulate. The upper part could be used to store things. I will read your post again and see if I pick up any other ideas. Members who live in cold areas probably have better ideas dealing with the weather.

 

[Ray--Opo]

here is my 20'x12' tort shed. It used to be a gardeners shed until I got it...Styrofoam sheeting is under the floor, that pink fluffy stuff in the walls and ceiling. I have ONE radiator heater...3 hanging uvb lights and 3 heat bulbs. The temperature stays 85-90 degrees, even with ice and sno outside.

Here's the shed, showing a doggie door (tort door) and the people door.View attachment 354835
here's the sleeping box with a Kane heat mat in a cornerView attachment 354836
here is the heater, up out of the way and you can see the vaporizer too and in the electric strip is the controller for the pig blanket...View attachment 354837
there's a tort table in it for visitors and fosters...View attachment 354838
and 2 spots under that table for more torts. There's doggie doors on 2 sides of the shed. View attachment 354839
So that's mine...the electric is on a separate line from the house. The roof is metal and the shed gets fairly hot. And we made the window too small.
The shed belongs to Mary Knobbins, a female Sulcata about 45 pounds. You might think about planting Rose of Sharon and grapes for the leafsView attachment 354840
I hope this helps

Do you find it hard to heat the inside of shed? That's why I was suggesting a ceiling about 4' above the floor.

 

[Yvonne G]

I got tired of bending over and reaching into tortoises houses with low ceilings, that's why all my tortoise sheds (four of them) are now regular 8' tall or so sheds. This is Not recommended by most members here on the forum, but I hang a 250 watt brooder bulb (red) from the ceiling. It's about 3' off the floor. Heat rises and besides heating what's under the bulb, the heat rises and heats the whole shed. I also have pig blankets on the floor. People say red bulbs cause the tortoise to be awake at night, or to see non-food items as food. I've never had those problems.

 

[vladimir]

Thanks all - you've given me a lot to think about. I'm planning to speak with a local shed construction company this weekend to explain what I need and see what they can offer 😄

It sounds like I may be better off with a metal roof.

Has anyone used closed cell spray foam insulation?

 

[Ray--Opo]

Thanks all - you've given me a lot to think about. I'm planning to speak with a local shed construction company this weekend to explain what I need and see what they can offer 😄

It sounds like I may be better off with a metal roof.

Has anyone used closed cell spray foam insulation?

My son put a addition on his house and used it. He was very happy with it.

 

[vladimir]

I'm thinking that might be the best way to fully insulate the inside, the problem will then be putting up plywood prevent Vlad from accessing any of the wall that has the spray foam insulation exposed. 🤔

 

[jaizei]

I'm thinking that might be the best way to fully insulate the inside, the problem will then be putting up plywood prevent Vlad from accessing any of the wall that has the spray foam insulation exposed. 🤔

Why would that be a problem? You'd have to put up the plywood to protect any other insulation as well.

 

[Maro2Bear]

I'm thinking that might be the best way to fully insulate the inside, the problem will then be putting up plywood prevent Vlad from accessing any of the wall that has the spray foam insulation exposed. 🤔

A double wall would be good - much better insulation. Just like building on of Tom’s enclosures. Outer wall of exterior plywood type “shed material”, inner core of solid core styrofoam insulation, then an inner wall again of plywood.

I had a shed built & delivered….(for chickens). But these customized sheds work well.

Sheds For Sale - Amish Built, 5 Year Warranty, Fully Custom

Penn Dutch Structures offers a large selection of Amish built sheds for sale in Pennsylvania and Maryland with custom options & ready-to-deliver sheds in stock.

www.penndutchstructures.com

 

[vladimir]

Why would that be a problem? You'd have to put up the plywood to protect any other insulation as well.

Yep, I planned on adding an interior layer of plywood regardless of the insulation type. I wasn't sure if the spray foam overspray might make it harder to mount plywood flush against the wall

 

[jaizei]

Yep, I planned on adding an interior layer of plywood regardless of the insulation type. I wasn't sure if the spray foam overspray might make it harder to mount plywood flush against the wall

ahh. a decent spray foamer should trim anywhere the foam extends outside of the cavity and leave it ready for wallboard.

 

[Len B]

Thanks all - you've given me a lot to think about. I'm planning to speak with a local shed construction company this weekend to explain what I need and see what they can offer 😄

It sounds like I may be better off with a metal roof.

Has anyone used closed cell spray foam insulation?

I have, it's been years ago in the 1970s. If you decide to go that route put the protection plywood barrier up before spraying. Drill some holes it the plywood, probably 1/2 inch would be big enough. Then all you'd have to do is scrape off with a putty knife what expands out of the hole. With the spraying of the areas above the protection area staple clear 6 mil poly pulled tight to the wall studs. Then just punch holes in the poly and spray. Doing this will also save you the cost of over spray that would have to be cut off and thrown away.

 

[Ray--Opo]

Yep, I planned on adding an interior layer of plywood regardless of the insulation type. I wasn't sure if the spray foam overspray might make it harder to mount plywood flush against the wall

You can trim off any thick over spray with a hand saw. The foam insulation my son used. You didn't need to fill the cavity between the studs full with the spray foam insulation.