Planning for a Hermann's

tinytortoise

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Planning a home for a baby Hermann's (Hercegovinensis). I haven't finalized anything, this will be my first time homing a tortoise, and hope to share here for more insight and different perspectives. Poke away!

Some things I'm hoping to source locally, to verify quality and ingredients, are:

Top Soil (clean, no additives), peat moss mixture, and I'm actively eyeing unique bookcases, or similar
furniture, of solid wood minimum 2x3 ideally larger.

Here is a list of the other commercial items that I hope, along with the above paragraph, form a comprehensive set up:

  • GE 18 in. Fluorescent Under Cabinet Light Fixture
    Model #16466
  • Exo Terra Repti-Glo 10.0 Fluorescent Lamp, 15-Watt/18-Inch
    Model #PT2170
  • Zoo Med Reptile Lamp Stand
    Model #LF20
  • Zoo Med Mini Deep Dome Lamp Fixture 100w
    Model #LF18
  • Philips 75-Watt A21 Incadscent Tuff Guard Light Bulb Soft White (2700K)
    Model #415273
  • Veanic 4-Pack Mini Digital Electronic Temperature Humidity Meters
  • Zoo Med Eco Earth Compressed Coconut Fiber Expandable Reptile Substrate, 3 count
  • Zoo Med Turtle Bone Supplement, 2 count
  • Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 Reptile Supplement, 3-oz jar

Other thing's I hadn't considered as much are small furnishings (basking spot, water dish(es), plant/fake-plant, etc), specific hide construct (possibly built in), and I'd like to make an optional cover for the enclosure. Hoping to start growing tortoise food, and planning a small outdoor enclosure once this is all ironed out!

Any feedback, ideas, or tips much appreciate, thanks for reading my ramble!
 

Minority2

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1. Lime, vermiculite, perlite, worm casings, and bat guano in soil mixes are unsafe for tortoises. Make sure the top soil doesn't have any of that. Better yet, use grow quality coco coir and or fine grade orchid/fir bark instead.

2. In my opinion, a 2 x 3 ft enclosure is on the small side for a hatchling. 4 x 2 to 4 x 4 is what I usually recommend because large spaces are beneficial to a tortoises health and well being. Here is a highly recommend starter enclosure for a single hatchling:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/IRIS-Holiday-Tree-Storage-Tote-with-Compartment-Lid-Red/48037027

3. Pet branded lighting fixtures are often overpriced and less durable than what you may find in commercially sold hardware stores.

4. The Veanic mini meters you have listed may not be accurate enough for tortoise care. A infrared temperature gun and digital food/weather branded thermometer hygrometer reader with probe with will likely be better suited.

5. Again, the zoo med reptile substrate you listed is grossly overpriced and can sometimes contain foreign matter such as bits of metal and plastic. Buying regular grow quality coco coir will be much cheaper in comparison. You can find very cheaply priced coco coir in gardening centers and tractor supply stores.
 

tinytortoise

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1. Lime, vermiculite, perlite, worm casings, and bat guano in soil mixes are unsafe for tortoises. Make sure the top soil doesn't have any of that. Better yet, use grow quality coco coir and or fine grade orchid/fir bark instead.

2. In my opinion, a 2 x 3 ft enclosure is on the small side for a hatchling. 4 x 2 to 4 x 4 is what I usually recommend because large spaces are beneficial to a tortoises health and well being. Here is a highly recommend starter enclosure for a single hatchling:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/IRIS-Holiday-Tree-Storage-Tote-with-Compartment-Lid-Red/48037027

3. Pet branded lighting fixtures are often overpriced and less durable than what you may find in commercially sold hardware stores.

4. The Veanic mini meters you have listed may not be accurate enough for tortoise care. A infrared temperature gun and digital food/weather branded thermometer hygrometer reader with probe with will likely be better suited.

5. Again, the zoo med reptile substrate you listed is grossly overpriced and can sometimes contain foreign matter such as bits of metal and plastic. Buying regular grow quality coco coir will be much cheaper in comparison. You can find very cheaply priced coco coir in gardening centers and tractor supply stores.
Goodmorning!
Thanks, I'll take this all into account and adjust accordingly.
I'll be tedious with the topsoil, I've read good things about the orchid bark at Lowes, thanks for no-go-list!!
Aiming for >2'x3'x1' for sure on the enclosure. 2'x4'x1' minimum at this point. The plastic enclosures seems so easy, maybe not the most sightly, but do you think they could be built around, hidden, or transitioned out of easily later? With the tub I just have to rethink where they'll be/what it looks like, the whole setup, will deliberate!
Hoping to see if my local restaurant supply has a good thermo/hygro.
Posting this, I felt the dome lamp/fixture are my weak points, in the pet branded sense, but based on criteria, and lack of knowing much diy for the fixtures, I'd leaned towards this one because it has the built in attachment at top of dome, to not stress the cord; with the ceramic socket (though can't be used with ceramic heat bulb), and higher wattage than I need. The stand because it can hang exactly vertical, per dome hook, and I can secure the base of stand below the enclosure, or with weight - I searched for hours and other than DIY wasn't finding much readily available, will re-approach before buying them.

Open to pics, idea, DIY on any/all this~ appreciate it!
 

Minority2

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Goodmorning!
Thanks, I'll take this all into account and adjust accordingly.
I'll be tedious with the topsoil, I've read good things about the orchid bark at Lowes, thanks for no-go-list!!
Aiming for >2'x3'x1' for sure on the enclosure. 2'x4'x1' minimum at this point. The plastic enclosures seems so easy, maybe not the most sightly, but do you think they could be built around, hidden, or transitioned out of easily later? With the tub I just have to rethink where they'll be/what it looks like, the whole setup, will deliberate!
Hoping to see if my local restaurant supply has a good thermo/hygro.
Posting this, I felt the dome lamp/fixture are my weak points, in the pet branded sense, but based on criteria, and lack of knowing much diy for the fixtures, I'd leaned towards this one because it has the built in attachment at top of dome, to not stress the cord; with the ceramic socket (though can't be used with ceramic heat bulb), and higher wattage than I need. The stand because it can hang exactly vertical, per dome hook, and I can secure the base of stand below the enclosure, or with weight - I searched for hours and other than DIY wasn't finding much readily available, will re-approach before buying them.

Open to pics, idea, DIY on any/all this~ appreciate it!

Aesthetically pleasing enclosures come at a price. If you want display quality enclosures, Animal plastics would be the best choice. Extra options and accessories will make lighting/heating fixture setups much easier:
https://apcages.com/collections/terrestrial-cages

A closed chamber style enclosure will be more suitable for an indoor tortoise than an open enclosure would. Temperature and humidity levels are much easier to control in closed chamber style enclosure. A low cost closed chamber style setup will not be pretty but it will be effective and beneficial to the tortoise.

This is a good example of an affordable yet durable lamp fixture:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-300...-SearchPLPHorizontal1_rr-_-NA-_-204684496-_-N

The diameter of the fixture is wide enough to project more heat and light across the enclosure. You can build a PVC stand to prop it up. Do not use the clamps as they are not reliable for long term use. Be sure to hang all lighting fixtures directly pointed downwards.
 

tinytortoise

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Did first bit of tortoise shopping today!

Just my light fixtures, got the GE T8 Fixture mentioned above for the UVB bulb, along with the HDX-300 you linked in previous comment, and the light-bulb for it!

Checked out Home Depo's plastic containers, but as you said, the Christmas Tree container seems to be the best size yet (maybe I can find a black lid, haha).

Also, checked a local thrift shop and found an old piece of furniture that seemed like it could easily make a good tortoise table; after sanding, filling a few spots, and painting, but it would be a rather open enclosure, though it does have a big lid. Will add a picture to see what people think - it obviously needs a lot of love, but is solid wood.

At this point I think starting the hatchling with a spacious plastic, lidded, bin is best. Maybe more aesthetic can then be put into our first outdoor, balcony, enclosure - by next spring!
 

tinytortoise

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Ugly coffee table that could become a cute tortoise home after elbow grease. Thoughts?
Didn't have measuring tape but inside is about 3.25'x3.25'~ more or less.
 

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Minority2

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Ugly coffee table that could become a cute tortoise home after elbow grease. Thoughts?
Didn't have measuring tape but inside is about 3.25'x3.25'~ more or less.

I would double check the dimensions. I estimate it to be under 3 feet all around. The height is also quite low. 3-4 inches of substrate may very well take up half the height from the looks of it. Lighting and heating fixtures are usually hung above at least 8+ inches from the substrate. A closed chamber enclosure should have at least a height of 1-1.5 ft or more.

You should also know that a starter sized 4 x 2 x 2 ft enclosure would only be viable on average for about 2-3 years of a growing tortoise's life. Some much less depending on the species and growth rate.
 

tinytortoise

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I would double check the dimensions. I estimate it to be under 3 feet all around. The height is also quite low. 3-4 inches of substrate may very well take up half the height from the looks of it. Lighting and heating fixtures are usually hung above at least 8+ inches from the substrate. A closed chamber enclosure should have at least a height of 1-1.5 ft or more.

You should also know that a starter sized 4 x 2 x 2 ft enclosure would only be viable on average for about 2-3 years of a growing tortoise's life. Some much less depending on the species and growth rate.

Right, this is all just a baby setup, I plan to build out over each growth stage. I don't think the square piece is adequate, didn't buy it so no harm, going to keep looking!
 

tinytortoise

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Pew, back from a long rabbit hole down the forums.

I'm thinking about doing one of the Rubbermaid Stock Tanks, 50 gal. (31 in. x 52 in. x 12 in.) as an enclosure.

With a DIY pipe & plastic greenhouse lid, a condensed version of this picture:

k9hm5z.jpg

This also can function as a lamp stand, saving money on that, and visually, I find the idea appealing.

For the rounded edges of the Stock Tank, I may adhere horizonal sheets of plastic, and cut along the edge. Then create the triangular prism lid for the middle section of the stock tank (a condensed version of the lid in image). For the UVB I may secure it to the interior of the tank, with the basking light above, similar to image shown, at desired height.

Getting excited!

Thanks to Tom for Closed "Chambers" post: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/

Still brainstorming the concept so send me feedback and criticism please!
 

Minority2

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Pew, back from a long rabbit hole down the forums.

I'm thinking about doing one of the Rubbermaid Stock Tanks, 50 gal. (31 in. x 52 in. x 12 in.) as an enclosure.

With a DIY pipe & plastic greenhouse lid, a condensed version of this picture:

k9hm5z.jpg

This also can function as a lamp stand, saving money on that, and visually, I find the idea appealing.

For the rounded edges of the Stock Tank, I may adhere horizonal sheets of plastic, and cut along the edge. Then create the triangular prism lid for the middle section of the stock tank (a condensed version of the lid in image). For the UVB I may secure it to the interior of the tank, with the basking light above, similar to image shown, at desired height.

Getting excited!

Thanks to Tom for Closed "Chambers" post: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/

Still brainstorming the concept so send me feedback and criticism please!

This will work just fine. There is however, a couple things I would suggest doing instead to make your enclosure much more accessible and user friendly.

1. Make a rectangular frame instead of a triangular one. A rectangular frame reinforced at the top will have added areas to hang additional lighting fixtures. You need a minimum of 1x basking fixture and 1x linear florescent UV(B) fixture for a Hermann if you are unable to take them regularly outside.

2. Make sure one side of the frame can easily unseal and reseal. Something like a tarp zipper would do.
 

tinytortoise

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This will work just fine. There is however, a couple things I would suggest doing instead to make your enclosure much more accessible and user friendly.

1. Make a rectangular frame instead of a triangular one. A rectangular frame reinforced at the top will have added areas to hang additional lighting fixtures. You need a minimum of 1x basking fixture and 1x linear florescent UV(B) fixture for a Hermann if you are unable to take them regularly outside.

2. Make sure one side of the frame can easily unseal and reseal. Something like a tarp zipper would do.
Thanks! Hope to start drawing it out soon.
Should be able to get the tortoise outside regularly, but I'll have those lights year round. Winter is coming too.
Will be my first time building with PBC, fingers crossed!

Have a good evening.
 

tinytortoise

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New enclosure idea. Though I’m still leaning towards stock tank, but if I could build a closed chamber lid for this shelf I’m quite interested in converting it into a table/enclosure.

Dimensions: 67 inches tall 25 wide 12 deep (bigger than 50 gal stock tank)

Might not be deep enough. Though 6” of substrate or less would leave >6” clearance. Plus the lid I’d make.

It is a coffin, basically, but I think it has a lot of character, and room for customization. Though I need ideas for the closed chamber lid I’d want to build.
Thoughts?

IMG_1076.jpg
 

tinytortoise

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Very rough sketch of what I'd want to do with Coffin, the top level being a wooden frame and greenhouse plastic as the walls, probably going to do two heat lamps at lower wattage to lessen the negative impact of one high power bulb, which this lid should have plenty of room for lights!
I'd also line the interior with plastic as well for substrate.

Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?
 

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Minority2

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Very rough sketch of what I'd want to do with Coffin, the top level being a wooden frame and greenhouse plastic as the walls, probably going to do two heat lamps at lower wattage to lessen the negative impact of one high power bulb, which this lid should have plenty of room for lights!
I'd also line the interior with plastic as well for substrate.

Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?

Personally I would choose the stock tank over the Captain Morgan advertisement coffin. Width is just as important as length when choosing an ideal enclosure. In my opinion, the coffin has too many narrow sections and can become cluttered quite easily from adding hides, feeding dishes. water dishes. and additional shade elements. You can also build your own rectangular casket style enclosure, one that will actually be spacious and accommodating enough for a growing tortoise.

Multiple basking spots are not necessary. One basking fixture in a 8 x 4 ft closed chamber enclosure will work just fine as long as the ambient temperature level of the entire enclosure is does not fall under a certain range during the day. A well sealed closed chamber style enclosure is going to retain a lot of heat to the point where a single 25 watt incandescent flood bulb and T5 fixtures will be able to keep the enclosure's ambient temperatures well over 80-85F during the day.
 

tinytortoise

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Personally I would choose the stock tank over the Captain Morgan advertisement coffin. Width is just as important as length when choosing an ideal enclosure. In my opinion, the coffin has too many narrow sections and can become cluttered quite easily from adding hides, feeding dishes. water dishes. and additional shade elements. You can also build your own rectangular casket style enclosure, one that will actually be spacious and accommodating enough for a growing tortoise.

Multiple basking spots are not necessary. One basking fixture in a 8 x 4 ft closed chamber enclosure will work just fine as long as the ambient temperature level of the entire enclosure is does not fall under a certain range during the day. A well sealed closed chamber style enclosure is going to retain a lot of heat to the point where a single 25 watt incandescent flood bulb and T5 fixtures will be able to keep the enclosure's ambient temperatures well over 80-85F during the day.
Ah yes, I was imagining the Tank more narrow, it undoubtedly offers more square inch, and probably easier project. Also a stand/box cover, etc, for it are feasible too. Thanks for insight, keeping me from making rash decisions!
May attempt some shopping tomorrow & this weekend for tank, pvc pipes, plastic, adhesive, uvb bulb, thermo/hygro, coir/soil/moss, narrow dishes, seeds/seedlings of tortoise safe plant, and other functional interior like the hide and shade options.

Feeling much more prepared thanks a ton @Minority2, and all the resource on this forum. Will post more pictures soon.
 
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Minority2

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Ah yes, I was imagining the Tank more narrow, it undoubtedly offers more square inch, and probably easier project. Also a stand/box cover, etc, for it are feasible too. Thanks for insight, keeping me from making rash decisions!
May attempt some shopping tomorrow & this weekend for tank, pvc pipes, plastic, adhesive, uvb bulb, thermo/hygro, coir/soil/moss, narrow dishes, seeds/seedlings of tortoise safe plant, and other functional interior like the hide.

Feeling much more prepared thanks a ton @Minority2, and all the resource on this forum. Will post more pictures soon.

No problem, keep the questions coming.
 

tinytortoise

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No problem, keep the questions coming.

IMG_1090.jpg
Something a little more like this I’m thinking. Excuse my doodle.

With the lid I’m not sure if I want a smaller lid sitting on middle section, flush with top, or an over the top lid, possibly over the whole tank.
Likewise with shape of the whole lid, though I like the “house” shape.

Stand seems simple but not dead set on exactly how it is or anything. Room to grow with this idea.
 

Minority2

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1. Is the stock tank supposed to sink into the table? Am I seeing that correctly?

2. Where are you positioning the UV(B) fixture at?
The picture isn't quite so clear. I also recommend hanging lamp fixtures by their collar with a metal hook to prevent cable wear and tear. Linear florescent fixtures are be hung or affixed by using chains, industrial and heat resistant adhesive tape, and or zip ties.

3. Are you intending to grow plants in this enclosure?

4. What is the total realistic cost you plan on spending for this setup not including labor?
 

tinytortoise

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1. Is the stock tank supposed to sink into the table? Am I seeing that correctly?

2. Where are you positioning the UV(B) fixture at?
The picture isn't quite so clear. I also recommend hanging lamp fixtures by their collar with a metal hook to prevent cable wear and tear. Linear florescent fixtures are be hung or affixed by using chains, industrial and heat resistant adhesive tape, and or zip ties.

3. Are you intending to grow plants in this enclosure?

4. What is the total realistic cost you plan on spending for this setup not including labor?

Right this is just a rough sketch. Uvb will need to be a little higher. So either along the top edge of the tank, shining down, or it could be secured to the lid.

It’s not so much a table, but a stand to set the stock tank into, yes it fits snugly inside, i got it from a picture on amazon where someone uses it as a bath for their dogs, but has it on the stand to help from bending over, will add picture. This isn’t an immediate requirement, but something I may look into.

Yes I hope to grow plants. But they don’t have to be inside the enclosure, and I’m not relying on them to. As many have mentioned I’d likely rotate them out, with tortoise food growing outside of the enclosure for regular feeding. Inside I plan to use the potted plant method to allow for some live plants to contribute towards shade.

The lamp won’t be hung from cord. It has the place for hooking and I’ll secure chain or zip tie.

I haven’t looked at prices for pvc, plastic, or wood, and they’ll vary slightly depending on if I do lid flush to top, or over the top.

Tank $60
Substrate $20~?
Pvc/plastic/adhesive $20-30~? (Guessing)
Lamp fixture, tube fixture, $28 (owned)
Chain/zip tie <$5
UVB tube and flood light bulb <$20
2 pack smart plug, wifi enabled, timers $19
Hide, shade, basking, plant, etc $20-30

Plywood(maybe later than sooner) $20-50 (I’ve never purchased wood but assume it won’t take a ton).

Minimally, I think it’ll cost about 190 without a stand. Maximally, if I got some expensive wooden materials, about $250.

I do aim to be frugal, and don’t have to build stand right now. My assumption is that it can be more cost effective than 190 total. I think substrate, interior decor, and the lid materials can be cheaper than I’ve estimated - simply haven’t shopped for them yet.

Pew just waking up, have a good day! Thanks!
 
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