Platynota temperature sex determination

jcase

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I don't know that 89 degrees produces females in platynota. No one seems to have the temps worked out yet. Mine were all temp sexed for female and they were 8.6. G-Stars got 15.0 that were all incubated for female at higher incubation temps. The split scutes are a good indicator though. At 7 or 8 inches, should should be able to tell the sex. I could tell at about 2 years old and half that size.

I have never seen or even heard of aggression like that in this species. Not with males or females, so it is certainly an unusual case. I had not heard of that with geckos either, so I learned something new today. Thank you for that.
TSD incubation temperatures have been published and appears consistent, I believe it was @zovick that published on it, I do know I read two papers, one on it and one that touched on it.

However, I've done a lot of work on thermostats (mid process of designing/testing my own). I bought almost every thermostat on the market, for reptiles and for plants. NONE of them were consistent nor accurately calibrated. What is worse is almost none of them offer a way to calibrate. Some will swing 5 degrees consistently, most will display one temperature when the reading is actually way off. I'd be willing to bet money on the thermostats being the issue if incubation temperatures are not panning out.

She appears female for sure, I have no doubt on it. She is certainly aggressive to others, and is my only platynota that is so.
 

Tom

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TSD incubation temperatures have been published and appears consistent, I believe it was @zovick that published on it, I do know I read two papers, one on it and one that touched on it.

However, I've done a lot of work on thermostats (mid process of designing/testing my own). I bought almost every thermostat on the market, for reptiles and for plants. NONE of them were consistent nor accurately calibrated. What is worse is almost none of them offer a way to calibrate. Some will swing 5 degrees consistently, most will display one temperature when the reading is actually way off. I'd be willing to bet money on the thermostats being the issue if incubation temperatures are not panning out.

She appears female for sure, I have no doubt on it. She is certainly aggressive to others, and is my only platynota that is so.
TSD for platynota? I'd love to see that.

I use the Helix DBS1000 on my current stand-up freezer incubator, and I just bought a Herpstat 2 to make a new incubator out of a wine cooler with a night temp drop. The Helix holds a pretty consistent temp for me. I run two or three separate digital thermometers in there, and they seldom change temperature, and the read out on the Helix unit is consistent too. Always where I set it. I initially tried to run a standard cheapy $30 thermostat on it, and I got temp fluctuations of 10-15 degrees. The digital proportional ones have worked well for me though.
 

jcase

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TSD for platynota? I'd love to see that.

I use the Helix DBS1000 on my current stand-up freezer incubator, and I just bought a Herpstat 2 to make a new incubator out of a wine cooler with a night temp drop. The Helix holds a pretty consistent temp for me. I run two or three separate digital thermometers in there, and they seldom change temperature, and the read out on the Helix unit is consistent too. Always where I set it. I initially tried to run a standard cheapy $30 thermostat on it, and I got temp fluctuations of 10-15 degrees. The digital proportional ones have worked well for me though.
Ask bill about it. My helix is off with no way for me to calibrate.
 

zovick

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Ask bill about it. My helix is off with no way for me to calibrate.
@Tom and @jcase
I don't believe I ever published anything on TSD in platynota, but I do have a good bit of experience breeding all 3 types of Star Tortoises. I never used anything but a still-air Hovabator to incubate my eggs and did not have the high tech digital thermostatic controls available today. I used Schultheis thermometers which were in those days considered the state-of-the-art, most accurate mercury thermometers available. We used those same Schultheis thermometers to record the body temperatures of turtles in the field when doing Bog Turtle research studies, etc. Each thermometer was glass with real mercury inside and came in an aluminum padded tubular case for field use.

At any rate, I used one of the Schultheis thermometers in each incubator and monitored the temps daily or even more often via the sight windows. I also made certain my incubators were kept in a room with virtually no temperature fluctuations of the ambient air. I can say without any doubt that every Star Tortoise (which I was able to track to adulthood) that I hatched which was incubated at 89F turned out to be female and all those incubated at 84-85F turned out to be male.
 

jcase

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@Tom and @jcase
I don't believe I ever published anything on TSD in platynota, but I do have a good bit of experience breeding all 3 types of Star Tortoises. I never used anything but a still-air Hovabator to incubate my eggs and did not have the high tech digital thermostatic controls available today. I used Schultheis thermometers which were in those days considered the state-of-the-art, most accurate mercury thermometers available. We used those same Schultheis thermometers to record the body temperatures of turtles in the field when doing Bog Turtle research studies, etc. Each thermometer was glass with real mercury inside and came in an aluminum padded tubular case for field use.

At any rate, I used one of the Schultheis thermometers in each incubator and monitored the temps daily or even more often via the sight windows. I also made certain my incubators were kept in a room with virtually no temperature fluctuations of the ambient air. I can say without any doubt that every Star Tortoise (which I was able to track to adulthood) that I hatched which was incubated at 89F turned out to be female and all those incubated at 84-85F turned out to be male.
It may have been a kingsnake post and not a published paper, or it may have been referenced by someone else in a paper and attributed to you. Either way it doesnt really matter.
 

Markw84

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@Tom and @jcase and @zovick
Eric Goode co-authored a paper on endoscoping platynota and TDSD. Published in 2011, the paper concludes a pivot point of just over 30°C. Looking at 3 years of hatching platynota, and their endoscopy results they concluded this number with the caveat that temperatures were not monitored rigorously enough for precision. He also compares that to the observation that radiata incubated in the same incubators produced 1:11.5 female bias while the platynota produced 1:0.1 male bias when incubated at 28.9°C
 

jcase

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@Tom and @jcase and @zovick
Eric Goode co-authored a paper on endoscoping platynota and TDSD. Published in 2011, the paper concludes a pivot point of just over 30°C. Looking at 3 years of hatching platynota, and their endoscopy results they concluded this number with the caveat that temperatures were not monitored rigorously enough for precision. He also compares that to the observation that radiata incubated in the same incubators produced 1:11.5 female bias while the platynota produced 1:0.1 male bias when incubated at 28.9°C
This could be the paper I read, I know I read one on it and another that referenced I believe Bill.

I'm still slowly working my thermostat design, I mean this is part of why I have platynota (Besides the fact they are the best pet tortoise), is to play around with extremely accurate incubation. I'd like to get it all worked out before the rarer Cuora get going into breeding.
 

Tom

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This could be the paper I read, I know I read one on it and another that referenced I believe Bill.

I'm still slowly working my thermostat design, I mean this is part of why I have platynota (Besides the fact they are the best pet tortoise), is to play around with extremely accurate incubation. I'd like to get it all worked out before the rarer Cuora get going into breeding.
I would love to know what you figure out. Please keep us posted. I'm incubating at 88 and I get zero scute anomalies and almost 100% hatch rates, so I'm not inclined to change anything without good reason.

I've observed that lack of precision that Eric noted in the paper Mark referenced in most people's incubation routine, so it would be great to get solid info with lots of hatchlings form someone who is incubating with precision temperatures.
 

jcase

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I would love to know what you figure out. Please keep us posted. I'm incubating at 88 and I get zero scute anomalies and almost 100% hatch rates, so I'm not inclined to change anything without good reason.

I've observed that lack of precision that Eric noted in the paper Mark referenced in most people's incubation routine, so it would be great to get solid info with lots of hatchlings form someone who is incubating with precision temperatures.
We got a few years wait lol
 

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