Please ad anything you know about "coiled compact florescent bulbs".

[lisa127]

Yes, but why invest in coil or florescent bulbs when you can get a mercury vapor bulb that provides BOTH heat and UV?

I prefer long tube uvb myself.

 

[sibi]

I prefer long tube uvb myself.

Good. I guess you don't need the heat. I have tropical creatures that need heat, and so MVB work best, in my opinion

 

[lisa127]

Good. I guess you don't need the heat. I have tropical creatures that need heat, and so MVB work best, in my opinion

I provide heat. Why wouldn't i? That's a strange thing to say. Since when is that the only way to provide heat?

 

[W Shaw]

Thank you Mark.. so that's another way of saying in layman's terms.. 'coils can be too intense when used incorrectly'?

That's what a herpetologist told me also -- that a placing a coil bulb at the same distance you would place a long tube would result in sunburned eyes, so if you use them, they need to be placed a little higher. A lot of folks have had bad experiences with the coils. Is that because they placed them too close? I don't know. I'm still new to the whole ectothermic thing.

As for the mercury vapor -- I tried one and hated it. It wasn't reliable -- kept turning itself off, despite being in a special fixture designed to prevent overheating. Also I bought it so I could have heat and UVB in one bulb, but the MVB produced half the heat that his usual heat lamp did so I had to have both anyhow. Unreliable, potentially dangerous, and expensive. Just wasn't worth it.

 

[Markw84]

I don't think a lot of people remember or know that some of the tube type bulbs also created the same health problems. In fact one of the worst test results was from a long tube type.

 

[mike taylor]

Tom keeps sulcata.. and has stated that if no issues personally then don't be concerned. Common sense?

AGAIN.. we have to keep this in focus! What wattage are these keepers frying those bearded dragons and tortoises eyes out with???

READ the instructions folks!!!!!

Why are you pointing your fingers at me ? I also have sulcatas ,red foots ,leopards ,red ear sliders ,and snapping turtles . I don't use them because I'm not willingly risking my animals health when others have found they give tortoises eye problems . I don't think risking blinding my animals is worth saving a buck . Common sense ? There's already been a whole thread on this . How many times are we going to kick a dead horse ? I will never use these lamps or tell someone to. Please stop aiming your rants at me . If you want to use them fine with me . It's very disappointing that you'd give new members pointers on these lamps knowing some keepers have had issues . I personally think these lamps aim to much uvb I one spot . I don't know this to be fact just a guess . I'm not going to test these lamps on my animals . That's just me . Sorry if I angered you about this . You can do whatever you want .

 

[sibi]

I provide heat. Why wouldn't i? That's a strange thing to say. Since when is that the only way to provide heat?

I didn't say that MVB is the only way to provide heat. I'm saying that the florescent bulbs don't provide heat which I need for my animals. Since you said you "prefer florescent" long bulbs which doesn't provide heat, it may be that you don't need it. Look, let's not parse words. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm simply stating, that for me, it makes money sense to buy one bulb that has dual purpose: UV and heat. I have nothing against the full spectrum florescent bulbs which, btw, I use for my aquatic turtle. It works great for my tank. But, for my tortoises, MVB work best. It's just my preference. Don't read more into my comments than what's written. I apologize if you were offended in any way.

 

[lisa127]

I didn't say that MVB is the only way to provide heat. I'm saying that the florescent bulbs don't provide heat which I need for my animals. Since you said you "prefer florescent" long bulbs which doesn't provide heat, it may be that you don't need it. Look, let's not parse words. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm simply stating, that for me, it makes money sense to buy one bulb that has dual purpose: UV and heat. I have nothing against the full spectrum florescent bulbs which, btw, I use for my aquatic turtle. It works great for my tank. But, for my tortoises, MVB work best. It's just my preference. Don't read more into my comments than what's written. I apologize if you were offended in any way.

I wasn't offended....I found the comment strange.

 

[sibi]

I wasn't offended....I found the comment strange.

Okay. I hope you understand what I said now

 

[lisa127]

Okay. I hope you understand what I said now

Well i think just like I prefer tubes and flood bulbs for heat.....you prefer mvb. Simply that, right?

I keep box turtles, a redfoot, and a sulcata and use tubes and heat bulbs/flood lights for all. Just different strengths.

 

[sibi]

That's what a herpetologist told me also -- that a placing a coil bulb at the same distance you would place a long tube would result in sunburned eyes, so if you use them, they need to be placed a little higher. A lot of folks have had bad experiences with the coils. Is that because they placed them too close? I don't know. I'm still new to the whole ectothermic thing.

As for the mercury vapor -- I tried one and hated it. It wasn't reliable -- kept turning itself off, despite being in a special fixture designed to prevent overheating. Also I bought it so I could have heat and UVB in one bulb, but the MVB produced half the heat that his usual heat lamp did so I had to have both anyhow. Unreliable, potentially dangerous, and expensive. Just wasn't worth it.

LOL I know what you mean. At first, when I first used a MVB, it kept turning itself off. Then I read that it has a safety mechanism built in it that everytime it goes out or you turn it off, it takes about 15 minutes for it to turn back on. But, once you know this, it can be great. Expensive? You bet! Worth it? Yes, in my opinion

 

[sibi]

Well i think just like I prefer tubes and flood bulbs for heat.....you prefer mvb. Simply that, right?

I keep box turtles, a redfoot, and a sulcata and use tubes and heat bulbs/flood lights for all. Just different strengths.

Yep, you got it!

 

[mike taylor]

Well I did a search with key words ( eye problems ) I'd suggest anyone wanting to use one of these lamps take a look and judge for yourself .

 

[sibi]

Well i think just like I prefer tubes and flood bulbs for heat.....you prefer mvb. Simply that, right?

I keep box turtles, a redfoot, and a sulcata and use tubes and heat bulbs/flood lights for all. Just different strengths.

Hey, you keep box turtles. Maybe you can help me out. I'll pm you. Don't want to hijack this thread.

 

[W Shaw]

LOL I know what you mean. At first, when I first used a MVB, it kept turning itself off. Then I read that it has a safety mechanism built in it that everytime it goes out or you turn it off, it takes about 15 minutes for it to turn back on. But, once you know this, it can be great. Expensive? You bet! Worth it? Yes, in my opinion

Yeah, I read that when I got mine, but I'm away at work all day, and live in a cold climate. If I could be home all day and turn it back on it might be different. I was worried about it going out and not coming back on, and me not finding out until 10 hours later that he'd been without heat and light all day.

 

[sibi]

Yeah, I read that when I got mine, but I'm away at work all day, and live in a cold climate. If I could be home all day and turn it back on it might be different. I was worried about it going out and not coming back on, and me not finding out until 10 hours later that he'd been without heat and light all day.

If the light was on when you left for work, and it happens to go out, it will go back on by itself. That much I know cause it happens often here in the terrarium I have. The light just goes back on by itself after short blackout.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Kori and Maggie: Thanks so much for your personal experience and input here. That's what I was hoping from when I saw this thread. A mixture of information and personal experiences not just "I heard you shouldn't use those".

The problem as Terry suggests is trying to separate the emotion of the experience and look at all the possible contributing factors.

There was a problem 5-8 years ago with the very manufacturing as they were emitting some actual UVC. But even with that corrected do we still have a problem beyond placement. For example, the recommended height now posted on all the bulbs by the better manufacturers who have worked on this problem is still given without consideration for placing the bulb in a reflective hood - which can at least double the UVB at a given distance. Is that causing or contributing to some of this? If so, how will it then apply to MVB and HO (high output) tubes and now metal halide?? Is MVB really the better choice because it is safer UVB? Or is it perhaps that MVB emits the heat that tells the tortoise he's had enough? Are tubes really safer UVB or is it that they distribute the UVB over a wider area and the basking light we also include it that case is only getting a portion of the effective UVB emitted. With a coil or loop, as intense as it is, we often put the basking light (heat) immediately next to it so the concentrated, intense UVB is given in much greater doses over the same amount of time?

I think one of our goals on the forum is to explore and learn from our experiences held against the more "testable" knowledge. To further our understanding of husbandry practices that is repeatable, and we can share with others to avoid the mistakes we learn from. I know as painful as some of my mistakes have been over the years with my tortoises, to not really learn from them and find the cause so it might be eliminated in the future would be worse for me.

I think the best example of this is Tom's great work with pyramiding and humidity. Instead of simply yielding to so many stories of respiratory problems they associated with high humidity for a "desert" species, he had to separate the humidity itself from the equation as see if there were other things contributing to the Respiratory issues that could be fixed. The humidity itself was not the problem despite the countless stories and experiences of how bad it was. In fact - there was tremendous value to the humidity.

"....trying to separate the emotion of the experience and look at all the possible contributing factors." MARK!.. who writes your stuff? - that has to be one of the absolute best observations and statements I've read on this forum since I joined over 8 years ago!!!

PLUS your statement about what Tom has done with his studies on pyramiding and humidity - he didn't read or listen to all their worthless chatter.. he put it into action.. hands on! [ in no way do I take credit for any of that ] I recall speaking with Tom on the phone about pyramiding and humidity.. and comparing his "desert" tortoises and my "edge-of-rain-forest" tortoises.. and he ran with it. We both gained a lot from those few brief conversations.

Sometimes the/my written word is taken incorrectly and does spur that emotion - the enemy of objective thinking...

 

[Turtlepete]

The redfoot ADULTS have one old 26 Watt maybe 15 inches from surface. In the 18 + years of keeping .carbonaria - from hatchlings to 12 year captive adults - I'm yet to see them "bask".. inside or out. The ONLY reason I have ANY lights in their indoor enclosure is so they can see the food. The ONLY time I've seen them under the light [ other than eating ] is when the temps are too low for them. I suspect they think they are going to warm up under the light. Even tho' this is shear speculation.. I suspect if a redfoot is out basking most of the time is because the ambient temps are low.. OR that light is their heat source
.

Terry,
I breed reds as well. My hatchlings regularly bask under heat lamps I provide, and the ambient temp hovers around 82. Just an interesting note to compare.

It's late, so I'm going to abandon any attempt at eloquence….

As far as "coil" bulbs, I've always used these below, which seem to constantly be on the "no-good list". I have NEVER observed anything out of the ordinary, and I've raised a LOT of animals under these. Probably 3-4 years worth of redfoot offspring, box turtles of various species, iguanas, etc.. I haven't had a single issue in probably 10-15 bulbs.
What does this tell me? Bulbs do not harm the tortoises 10/10 times. We can all agree on that, yes? So then, the "harmful" bulbs must be defective. I do recall there being a manufacturing error (I believe it was mentioned here on t make these bulbs harmful, but I believe that was corrected.Such defects can occur IN ANY SINGLE PRODUCT. Heater malfunctions, cooling system malfunctions, heating pads, any kinds of lighting…there is an innumerable amount of products prone to possible defects that have resulted in the death of animals. The same goes for human products; have you any idea how many humans are killed annually by malfunctioning toasters? Yet I still use a toaster to toast my bread in the morning.
If we were to avoid every single one of those, we would run out of products to use for our animals. It's rather illogical to treat something as the plague based on the anecdotes of a couple members.

I suspect that the issues observed can more often then not be chalked up to misuse, as are most things…something like a 10.0 bulb meant for desert species being placed 8 inches a way from a tortoise. ZooMed provides diagrams and usage instructions for these things for a reason.

This is yet another case where people must learn to think independently. I'm not saying don't take advise, and if someone advises you that something is harmful to your tortoise, it is wise to use caution, but also wise to put the effort into researching the matter yourself, and ALWAYS look outside the community that information came from.

 

[W Shaw]

If the light was on when you left for work, and it happens to go out, it will go back on by itself. That much I know cause it happens often here in the terrarium I have. The light just goes back on by itself after short blackout.

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

[Anyfoot]

Yes, but why invest in coil or florescent bulbs when you can get a mercury vapor bulb that provides BOTH heat and UV?

An mvb provides a good bright light, uvb and a basking spot all in one. For some species this is ideal, for some species that prefer low light and require no basking spot it is not. I had an mvb in for about a month when I first started with reds, they hid away. I changed to a CHE and an 18w fluorescent (also a created dappled shade with the fluorescent) and they stopped hiding.