PLEASE HELP - BUBBLES FROM NOSE

[LeopardTortLover]

This morning milly woke up with bubbles coming from her right nostril and her rubbing her nose with her arm. I have an ear infection and am deaf in both ears so I can't hear if theres any sounds when she breaths.

2 weeks ago my vet advised me to take the cool temps down from 27oC to 24oC ...i didnt want to take it down that far as it sounded too cold so I took it down to 26oC - could this have caused it??

Humidity in day is 40-50% but at night it can reach 80%

She's still eating.

What can I do? I'm panicking, PLEASE HELP, thanks.

 

[coreyc]

I would raise your temps back up a little

 

[jtrux]

Yep, raise em up, maybe average closer to 30

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Do your temps drop at night?

 

[LeopardTortLover]

My cool end is now 27, and my temps drop to 24 at night

 

[coreyc]

What's your basking temp ? I would add a CHE to raise your night time temp up a little

 

[mainey34]

Best thing to do is bump your temps up..

 

[Tom]

If you have changed nothing else, and your tortoise has suddenly fallen ill, then I would guess thats the cause. I prefer to keep my leopards at around 26-27 overnight with high humidity.

I don't think I could possibly drop my temps by one degree. Its just too fine an increment. What did you do to drop the temp only one degree and exactly how are you measuring it? Do you have one of those stick on thermometers? I suspect that your attempt to slightly lower your temp dropped it more than you think. Your rising humidity level at night suggests significant cooling to me too.

Finding out what went wrong and correcting it, while probably fix him right up. First thing to do is warm him back up. I would make it even warmer than it originally was for a few weeks at least. Next thing would be to call your vet and let him know what has happened, so he doesn't give out bad advice to someone else. In your climate, temps are even more critical and unforgiving than they are here, as you are now learning. Know your temps. Use a remote probed thermometer and an infrared temp gun to regularly ascertain, maintain and adjust the temps in your enclosure if needed. I have never seen a leopard get sick from being too warm, but I have seen MANY of them get sick by being kept too cool. Especially at night.

 

[Yvonne G]

...and along with everyone else's advice, don't worry about the bubbles. Once you get him warmed up again the bubbles will go away on their own without medication.

Your vet might have been thinking of greek tortoises, which can handle cooler temps that the leopards.

 

[LeopardTortLover]

The vet advised me to change her diet from lettuce to cabbage to make her put on weight as she hasnt put on any weight since I got her in august. It seems to be working, even though i thought leopards shouldnt have cabbage... other than that and the temps nothing has changed. I think she had a bit of a fright yesterday when somebody walked past her a bit too closely, she stayed in her shell for about five minutes, could it be stress related?

I haven't seen a bubble since this morning and she's been asleep in the cool end all day. I keep checking to see if shes alright.

I use Exoterra remote probed sensor to measure temps. And I have Microclimate International B1 thermostat to control temps. I also use an ExoTerra remote probed hydrometer to measure humidity. I cover her enclosure at night to keep it dark and humid.

I'll keep her temps at 27 tonight. Thanks for all the advice, was really worried this morning.

 

[Yvonne G]

Actually cabbage isn't all that good as a steady diet either. What kind of lettuce were you feeding? There's good and bad lettuces.

 

[Tortus]

It put on no weight in 3 months???

That sounds pretty extreme for a young leopard. Sounds like it needs good veterinary care. I would also like to know what the regular diet has been. My leopard hatchling so far has gained 24 grams every month since I got it. And the growth really exploded during the 4th month.

I hope you can figure out what's going on.

 

[Tom]

If you are seeing bubbles you need to get her WARMER than usual to help fight off the infection. I would keep your ambient closer to 30 day and night for a few weeks.

What is the temp in the coolest part of the enclosure?

Cabbage is not good for them over the long term. A little bit once in a while is fine, but whole meals of it day after day is not good. Any way for you to get weeds, flowers, leaves, cactus pads or Mazuri over there. Your diet needs some help. How about grass hay like orchard grass or bermuda hay? If you can finely chop that up and mix it with your grocery store greens, it will greatly improve the quality of your tortoises diet. There is a product here called "Salad Style" made by a company called "Oxbow". Can you get that in the UK? Its basically finely chopped hay. They have done the work for you.

 

[LeopardTortLover]

Well, when I got her she was roughly 524, and now she's 541, but i think she should have gained a lot more. Her diet is definately the problem. She won't eat hay or grass - just won't touch it. She sleeps on hay, so maybe I should take it out of her hide and put it with her food?

She used to eat baby coral lettuce, romaine, erm... and 2 other kinds which I cant remember. No iceburg. And now Ive been advised to feed her cabbage, grass, hay, and weeds. She has a weed box so I'll have to grow more.

coolest part is normally 27 but now ive pushed it up to 30 but my 40watt heater isn't getting anywhere close to im going to have to put a hot water bottle on her hide for the night. Humidity at the mo is 49%.

We can't get salad style but I'll order it online. Any tips on how to get her eating new food? She'll eat curly kale, dark green cabbage, and purple cabbage, and all lettuce, and her weeds but she doesnt eat a lot of them.

Also, I cant get her to touch any grassland pellets, she will occasionally eat dandelion pellets

So you all think diet is the problem? I know I sound stupid...

 

[Tom]

Listen, You do NOT sound stupid. Please don't do that to yourself. The stupid people are the ones who sit and watch their tortoises slowly die over time instead of asking a few simple questions. This forum is all about helping each other learn and take better care of our tortoises. I can already see from the equipment that you are using, and your trips to the vet that you have done some significant homework, and that you genuinely care, and that is commendable.

To get her to eat new foods: Tortoises are creatures of habit. They often take a long time to try new things. To make it worse, you are trying to basically get a little kid to stop eating candy and start eating salads and more healthy foods. Of course they are going to stomp their feet and jump up and down until you give them more candy... Try this: Get some grass hay or some fresh grass and chop it up SUPER fine or use soaked ZooMed pellets. Then take her favorite lettuces and chop them up super fine. Measure out about half of a normal days meal and then mix in a tiny bit of your chopped hay or grass. I'm talking less than 5 or 10% at first. Spray the greens with water, use a bowl and mix it all up very thoroughly so that all the tiny cut up pieces of lettuce are coated with a small amount of the new food particles. Feed lightly for a few days. She may refuse to touch it at first. That's fine. Let her go a couple few days. When she starts eating it you can gradually start to up the amount of food and the ratio of new to old. Over a period of a month or two she will get used to the taste, smell and texture of the new stuff, and begin to see it as food.

Two more things: Protein is not your enemy. Try feeding some legumes. Green beans, lima beans, peas, etc... Lettuce diets have very little protein. They NEED some protein, just not too much all the time. I use Mazuri to fill this need in my tortoises. This may help her to put on some weight too, and they usually like the legumes.

Also, with the warmer temps and added fiber and protein, hydration becomes very important. I would soak your baby in a tub of warm water a few times a week for a while. This will hurt nothing and might really help.

 

[LeopardTortLover]

Thanks for the great advice! I'm going to try everything, even though it will be a very long process to change her diet.
She gets soaked in warm water three times a week for 30 mins anyway, so hydration won't be a problem.

To get her to eat hay im going to try putting spaghum moss in her hide instead of hay, and then putting hay next to her food. Moss might be more comfy for her anyway.

The good news is she's eating well today, better than she has for a few days, and I havent seen any bubbles from her nose. Temps are still up and im keeping humidity lower for a few days, just so I can be sure she's on the mend - currently 40%

 

[Laura]

dont put the hay next to her food.. Mix it in. Chop it up and mix it.. dampen it.. see if that works..

 

[LeopardTortLover]

Okay, I'll do that