Poorly Little Horsfield

[Rachel Jackson]

Hello

Im new to the site so you have to bare with me as I get use to it!

So I have a beautiful Baby horse- field tortoise Corey. He's only a baby probably about 9 months old now. When we got him he was a bundle of joy always out and about active, eating etc. I did my research before setting his home up so I knew I needed everything he needed

I went on holiday a few week ago and he was looked after by the parents....... and I don't know if this has unsettled him? He has totally gone off his food and just isn't himself. Regardless of what food I leave out and encourage him to eat he has a few nibbles and that's it off he goes back to sleep. He use to love being under his basking light and even that he's not interested in it.

Im bathing him regularly to ensure that he's getting water etc as he never really goes anywhere near his water bowl.
He normally poo's when he bathes but this hasn't happened for weeks!!

Also ive noticed that he regularly "Misses" his food when he does try to eat...... Like he cant see it properly he will go to bite but sometimes its mid air so I don't know if this has something to with his not eating

Ive not taken him to the vets as of yet I wanted some advice from other people (As I don't always trust Vets!!!)

Any help would be appreciated

Rachel

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

What kind of light is in that hood? Many people here describe eye injury from CFL bulbs.

 

[Rachel Jackson]

I have two light
- 1 x basking (heat)
- 1 x UV

The are both Reptile Make (Not cheap!!)

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Sorry, I meant what kind of bulb. I am not familiar with reptile make as a brand. Many UVB bulbs people purchase (expensive ones designed for reptiles) are CFL bulbs that have caused trouble for owners.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Hi, Rachel, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum to you and Corey.
If the bulb is like

or

It is not good for the tortoises eyes and/or will not produce enough UVB.
You need an MVB (mercury vapour bulb ) which produces heat, light and uvb in one or a strip uvb light plus your basking bulb.
What are you using for night heat ?
Another common cause of your tortoise losing is appetite is low temperature.
A tortoises body temp must be 85° in order for it to digest it's food properly.
So what are your four key temps; Basking spot, warm side, cool side and night time low ?
Also humidity is very important, and it may be hard to keep high in an open table like that.
have a look at http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
then http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
as well as http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
and for the best foods : http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/nutrientanalysis.htm
I know it's a lot to take in, but to give your tortoise the best possible life, these links are invaluable.

 

[Rachel Jackson]

These are the lights that I currently have and these are left on for pretty much the duration of the day

I feel like I do have
- a basking spot
- a cool spot
- a warm spot
- But maybe not a night time low?

Yes your not kidding a lot to take it but I will have a read!

Would you advise having something over the enclosure? Ive always been informed and researched that its best to keep this "open"

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

No, that coiled bulb is bad and should be removed.
You need to measure the temps with a digital thermometer so your tortoise has the optimum temps for healthy living, if they are too low it will not eat.
A covered enclosure is better for the humidity, without it humidity is very hard to sustain and your tortoise might pyramid.

 

[Rachel Jackson]

Oh no!!!!!!!!!

The basking light though that is ok??
Can I just replace with a MVB bulb and that should be ok?

What would you advise making then to cover the enclosure, I want something were I can still see through etc?

Is there any SIMPLE advise were I can see exactly what the temp should be?

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Yes, i just use an MVB, which covers all daytime requirements and a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) connected to a thermostat to give night time heat.
The basking spot should be 95 to 100°F.at shell level.
Gradient temperatures away from this should be fine and happen naturally.
80° in the humid hide is recommended on the baby tortoise care sheet and the night time CHE setting seems to be also this for babies.
Look at our enclosures section and the threads I posted for ideas on covering your enclosure.
Transparent plexi glass or equivalent is good, but the lights shouldn't be blocked by it.

 

[Rachel Jackson]

Just checking would I need
- The normal basking light which is given heat (already got)
- A UV light I Need a bulb one rather than a "strip" so the MVB would be suitable? (need to replace as currently have coiled one)
- A night light - please advise on this?

Many thanks for your support

 

[Lyn W]

Hi Rachel
Are you in Preston UK?
All you need is the MVB bulb which aa Tidgy's Dad says gives heat, light and vital UV rays all in one bulb - no need for anything else for day,
For night you need a Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) on a thermostat so that it will keep night time temps even. This does not give light as torts need darkness to sleep. You can also use this if you need to boost day temps.
If you are in UK - Pets at Home sell Arcadia Mini D3 for about £39 I have an 80W at the moment.
The Range sell Komodo CHE for about £21 and Thermostats are about £35.
You will find a temperature gun easy for checking your temps I bought mine from Amazon for less than £10

Please get rid of those coil bulbs asap as they could damage your torts eyes and I see you already have concerns about his sight.
Also it would be safer to hang the mvb and che over the table because clamps have been known to fail and fall so cause fires

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Rachel, and welcome to the Forum!

With that open tortoise table, I'm thinking your baby isn't warm enough. So, besides the coil shaped bulb being harmful for the eyes, he needs to be a bit warmer in order to eat. When they can't get their core temperature up to at least 80-85F degrees, they stop eating. The bulb Tidgy's Dad recommended will warm him up nicely, however, if your house is pretty cool, it's hard to keep the warmth inside the tort table.

 

[Gillian M]

Hi, and a very warm welcome to the forum!

 

[Rachel Jackson]

So my plan................. Advise if in correct

- I am purchasing a MVB bulb to replace the horrid coiled bulb (still feel so guilty!!!!)
- I am making his enclosure a bit smaller (its huge and he does need it that big) to help support getting it warm
- I am getting a night bulb to make his house (sleeping are) a little warmer as I currently have no night light
- I am thinking of getting some plexiglass/plastic to cover the enclosure so ensure that the heat is correct throughout (Making sure the lights are placed underneath this) and ensure that the closure is fully closed- PLEASE ADVISE IF THIS IS CORRECT?

I am please that with some encouragement spending time under his basking light and getting some "proper weed" he ate..... so I cant thank this forum enough!!! You guys certainly know what your talking about!!!!!!

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Not your fault, don't feel guilty, there's a lot of old and bad advice out there and pet shops are usually only interested in selling whatever they have in stock. You came here and are learning, as we all did, and are doing your best for your tortoise. That's something to feel good about.
MVB good! This should also help with your heat.
If you can please keep the enclosure as large as possible, always bigger is better with size. Horsefields roam large territories in the wild and she will soon be patrolling her enclosure and trying to scale the sides or dig for freedom
No light light!!! Tortoises need darkness in order to sleep properly, the CHE i mentioned gives off heat, but no light.
Your plexi glass idea sounds super, it should help with humidity and heat.
So glad he is basking and eating. He is settling in!

 

[Rachel Jackson]

Yes I know but reading how bad they can be just made me feel guilty. But yes this Forum is FANTASTIC!!!
Ah right so leave the enclosure big-- brill got it!

I didn't mean a "Night Light" just a Heat bulb to place in his house for warmth at night? (Like a humide hide) - Any advice what "Heat" I can place in here?

So the MVB bulb does this still cover the UV light that he will need?

I know...... phew - was really starting to panic!!!

 

[Gillian M]

Yes I know but reading how bad they can be just made me feel guilty. But yes this Forum is FANTASTIC!!!
Ah right so leave the enclosure big-- brill got it!

I didn't mean a "Night Light" just a Heat bulb to place in his house for warmth at night? (Like a humide hide) - Any advice what "Heat" I can place in here?

So the MVB bulb does this still cover the UV light that he will need?

I know...... phew - was really starting to panic!!!

Don't panic Rachel! You'll get the help you need here.

As for the enclosure, I think: the bigger it is the better. Please keep in mind that torts without owners like us, live in the wild, where they have NO boundaries, NO borders, NO red lights, so as to say. Good luck to you and your tort!

 

[Rachel Jackson]

I know Gillian Im a worrier at the best of times lol!

Just checking if the MVB bulb doesn't give off "Light" were do I get the UV light from as I am unable to fit a UV strip in?

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Yes I know but reading how bad they can be just made me feel guilty. But yes this Forum is FANTASTIC!!!
Ah right so leave the enclosure big-- brill got it!

I didn't mean a "Night Light" just a Heat bulb to place in his house for warmth at night? (Like a humide hide) - Any advice what "Heat" I can place in here?

So the MVB bulb does this still cover the UV light that he will need?

I know...... phew - was really starting to panic!!!

A CHE (ceramic heat emitter) with a thermostat will control your night time heat. In the roof of the enclosure, not in the hide.
The MVB should provide your necessary heat light and UVB requirements all in one, for daytime use (12 to 14 hours.).

 

[Tom]

Everyone has a different way of looking at things. Everyone has different preferences that they have developed over the years based on a variety of experiences. You are getting all sorts of advice and recommendations here, but I fear that you don't really understand what all this means. I'd first like to share some conceptual info so you understand the goal, and then we can talk about specific recommendations for your individual situation to try and help you achieve those goals.

First you have to decide what conditions you want to provide for your tortoise. There is lots of conflicting info out there but you've got to pick a style of care and use that as a starting point. Mixing and matching different things from different styles can lead to disaster sometimes. Once you decide what you think your four temperatures should be, then you pick a strategy with heating, lighting and measuring equipment and attempt to achieve those temps and conditions. Set it all up, run it for a few hours, check it, and make adjustment where necessary.

I know this all sounds so complex, but in practice it is really very simple. We will also help you as much as you need.

Here are my suggestions:
1. Since you are in a cold clammy climate and outdoor time will be limited most of the year, a mercury vapor bulb is a good way to go for you. Set it on a timer for about 12 hours a day and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under it. Mount the fixture from over head, or use a lamp stand of some sort, so you can adjust the height. I hang mine from their cords. Do not rely on those clamps as they always fail and it can burn your whole house down. This lamp should be over to one side. This will be the "warm" side.
2. If your house stays around 18-21 degrees C all the time, you are done. If your house gets colder than that then use your CHE set on a thermostat, mounted over the middle, to maintain night temps at around 18-22.
3. Babies need humidity. Having an open top and dry substrate makes this impossible unless the whole room is warm and humid all the time. I prefer to use a Vivarium or closed chamber for babies. It makes creating and maintaining moderate humidity much easier. They don't need it super humid like a tropical monsoon species, but bone dry all the time is no good.
4. Babies also need to be kept hydrated. Daily soaks will help with this. After they hit 100 grams, every other day or so is fine. Once they are adults, a couple times a week should ensure good hydration for anyone in any keeping situation.

All of this is explained in more detail here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

And this should help too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/