Possible changes?

Moozillion

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I can't tell, but I think I'm seeing some changes in my mud turtle, Jacques.

She had a near-drowning incident 6 WEEKS ago on December 8. She was resuscitated and improved very slowly but very well. After about a month, she appeared to be back to her usual self, although she was eating every 2-3 days instead of daily, like she used to.

I think I'm noticing changes this past week:
She hasn't eaten or appeared hungry in at least a week. I know for a fact she is NOT eating the ghost shrimp because I bought 10 and keep a close head count. I've lost some to attrition, but have always found the uneaten bodies.
She just wants to hang out under her basking lamp all the time.
When she swims, it seems like she's almost OVERLY buoyant.
I wonder if it took her this long develop an aspiration pneumonia?

My husband, who is very observant and enjoys watching Jacques as well, says he doesn't see it. I know that i'm prone to over-interpreting things and jumping to conclusions, but I am a little worried.
I'm starting this thread for 2 reasons: one, for people's input and two: to start a timeline in case she IS changing.
 

CarolM

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I can't tell, but I think I'm seeing some changes in my mud turtle, Jacques.

She had a near-drowning incident 6 WEEKS ago on December 8. She was resuscitated and improved very slowly but very well. After about a month, she appeared to be back to her usual self, although she was eating every 2-3 days instead of daily, like she used to.

I think I'm noticing changes this past week:
She hasn't eaten or appeared hungry in at least a week. I know for a fact she is NOT eating the ghost shrimp because I bought 10 and keep a close head count. I've lost some to attrition, but have always found the uneaten bodies.
She just wants to hang out under her basking lamp all the time.
When she swims, it seems like she's almost OVERLY buoyant.
I wonder if it took her this long develop an aspiration pneumonia?

My husband, who is very observant and enjoys watching Jacques as well, says he doesn't see it. I know that i'm prone to over-interpreting things and jumping to conclusions, but I am a little worried.
I'm starting this thread for 2 reasons: one, for people's input and two: to start a timeline in case she IS changing.
Oh I really hope it is nothing Bea. Holding thumbs.
 

mark1

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i've never found a change in habit to be a good thing ....... turtles can be sick for a long time before they outwardly act it , or show symptoms ... all animals can , but it seems ectotherms even longer , possibly because their metabolism is so much slower ......... what do you normally feed jacques ? does he ever eat live food ? commercial pellets ? vitamin supplements ?
 

Markw84

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Has there been changes to the temperature and lighting? Cooler? Shorter photoperiod or dimmer light - less light from a nearby window? We are in deep winter by the sun position. Turtles in the wild right now would not be feeding much, if at all.

A turtle wanting to bask more will often keep a more positive buoyancy as they "float bask" often. Since his incident, I know you changed his basking platform, so his preferred and normal routine has been changed. But if he has trouble submerging when he wants, that can be a problem.
 

Moozillion

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i've never found a change in habit to be a good thing ....... turtles can be sick for a long time before they outwardly act it , or show symptoms ... all animals can , but it seems ectotherms even longer , possibly because their metabolism is so much slower ......... what do you normally feed jacques ? does he ever eat live food ? commercial pellets ? vitamin supplements ?

Thanks so much for your interest.

I raised her on a juvenile turtle pellet food for her first few months, then Hikari Sinking Carnivore Wafers for several months. Once I started her on “real” food she would never touch the Wafers again! I routinely offer cooked catfish and/or raw salmon. At odd times I’ll offer other left overs: cooked chicken, pork chop, pot roast, shrimp. She accepts almost everything (except tuna! Go figure.) She managed to catch ONE of the ghost shrimp in her tank. I tried her on cut up earthworms at least twice but she had no interest.
Her only “supplement” is an ordinary cuttlebone. She usually hits it very well, but the new one I put in last week is still floating untouched.
The only time she got real supplements was when she got the juvenile pellets and the Hikari Wafers.

Thanks again!!!!! [emoji2]
 

Moozillion

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Has there been changes to the temperature and lighting? Cooler? Shorter photoperiod or dimmer light - less light from a nearby window? We are in deep winter by the sun position. Turtles in the wild right now would not be feeding much, if at all.

A turtle wanting to bask more will often keep a more positive buoyancy as they "float bask" often. Since his incident, I know you changed his basking platform, so his preferred and normal routine has been changed. But if he has trouble submerging when he wants, that can be a problem.

Thanks bunches, Mark.

The changes recommended after the near-drowning are all still in place.
Tank is bare bottom (and will permanently be so)
Water temp is 78*
I’ve made no changes to her lights, but the sunlight from a nearby window will surely have changed.

Since she was trying to bask, I put in an upside-down terra-cotta pot with plastic plants super glued to the side to give her traction to get on top. I figured there was no way she could get trapped under that! She tried and tried, but could only ever get halfway up.
Just yesterday I made her a new basking platform that should be SUPER easy to climb. But she’s still trying to figure it out.

She CAN submerge when she wants to.

I didn’t know about “float basking”- I wonder if that’s what she’s doing....

(Photo of new basking platform to follow)
 

Moozillion

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Her new platform is a long piece of hard plastic "eggcrate" light baffle, covered with soft fiberglass window screen.

IMG_9114.JPG

IMG_9110.JPG

IMG_9109.JPG

...and a glamor shot just because! To the right, you can see the side of the terra -cotta pot I tried to use for a safe basking platform, but she could never climb on top, even though she tried.

IMG_9106.JPG
 

mark1

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deficiencies can take years to become evident , there are many essential nutrients in whole live food , that may be lacking in her diet without some type of supplementation ...... i know from anecdotal experience b12 will stimulate appetite , not sure but i believe a deficiency will have the oppsite effect ........

here's something to read

http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Articles/Thiaminase.htm
 

Moozillion

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deficiencies can take years to become evident , there are many essential nutrients in whole live food , that may be lacking in her diet without some type of supplementation ...... i know from anecdotal experience b12 will stimulate appetite , not sure but i believe a deficiency will have the oppsite effect ........

here's something to read

http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Articles/Thiaminase.htm
WOW!!!! VERY interesting read, mark1. Thank you!
I figured fish would be her natural diet in the wild, so that's why I was using mostly fish. I did a quick internet search, and Channel Catfish (which HAS thiaminase) is apparently the most commonly farmed catfish in our area. So that's probably what she's been getting. :(
Luckily, salmon does not, so there's that, at least. o_O I had already offered her salmon (her favorite) this morning and although she looked at it very closely, she did not eat any, and walked off.

The next question is IF she has a thiamine deficiency which is causing her to be anorexic (have no appetite) how do I get her to eat???
 

Moozillion

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Hmmmm...I know she ate a ghost shrimp at least once. I wonder if I should get more ghost shrimp JUST to get her started eating again.
BUT I don't know if the ghost shrimp contain Thiaminase or not...

DANG: an internet search says shrimp DO contain Thiaminase...o_O
 
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CarolM

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mark1

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fish would be part of her diet , it would be whole fish , organs and all .... i think a deficiency in a particular thing , in addition to adding something that binds it could potentially be a problem , whereas minus the deficiency it may not be a problem at all .. the b12 i mentioned would be a misnomer , the injection used i believe are more than likely a b complex ........ have you tried insects ? maybe crickets ? i don't believe the fish you feed her is a problem as long as the diet is varied ..........
 

CarolM

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Me, too!!! :):<3:

She really is a little beauty.
I hope I haven't given her a Thiamine deficiency. :( I"m heading out to buy some turtle pellets with vitamin supplements.
Not sure what live food is available this time of year...
I am sure if it is a deficiency that you will have it sorted out soon. You look after Jacques really well. I am sure she also knows when you are taking photos and that she poses. If she could she would probably take selfies as she always has such character in her poses. [emoji1] It will come right and it sounds like you are getting awesome advice.
 

Moozillion

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fish would be part of her diet , it would be whole fish , organs and all .... i think a deficiency in a particular thing , in addition to adding something that binds it could potentially be a problem , whereas minus the deficiency it may not be a problem at all .. the b12 i mentioned would be a misnomer , the injection used i believe are more than likely a b complex ........ have you tried insects ? maybe crickets ? i don't believe the fish you feed her is a problem as long as the diet is varied ..........

THANKS again, mark1! :):):):):<3:

I have not tried insects, but will see what I can do. Not much flying around wild right now; I know PetSmart has crickets.
I hesitate to get her a vitamin shot- she's SO small...:confused:
 

Moozillion

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I am sure if it is a deficiency that you will have it sorted out soon. You look after Jacques really well. I am sure she also knows when you are taking photos and that she poses. If she could she would probably take selfies as she always has such character in her poses. [emoji1] It will come right and it sounds like you are getting awesome advice.
YES! My little Diva!!!! :)

Thank you for your support. :<3:
 

Moozillion

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fish would be part of her diet , it would be whole fish , organs and all .... i think a deficiency in a particular thing , in addition to adding something that binds it could potentially be a problem , whereas minus the deficiency it may not be a problem at all .. the b12 i mentioned would be a misnomer , the injection used i believe are more than likely a b complex ........ have you tried insects ? maybe crickets ? i don't believe the fish you feed her is a problem as long as the diet is varied ..........
What about pre-frozen bloodworms?
 

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