Possible changes?

[Moozillion]

She’s still not eating, and although I’ve seen her moving around the bottom of her tank with apparent ease, she most prefers to float-bask under her heat lamp.

I got some calf liver today but she wouldn’t go for it.
I re-read the pinned article on “What to Feed Water Turtles and Why,” and bought Omega One adult turtle sticks as well as Omega One Cichlid Pellets because those were the only ones of the recommended foods that my local stores had.
She’s not going for them either. [emoji20]

In the past, she went after guppies in a big way and even caught one (I already checked: thiaminase is NOT an issue with guppies) so am planning to get some to try again.

Any thoughts on whether I should try baby food carrots or some puréed pumpkin? Or is Vitamin A not a likely culprit here?
Here eyes and nose appear clear, she “yawns” occasionally- like usual, but no gasping or blowing bubbles.
Just not eating for over a week, after eating pretty well every 2-3 days for a few weeks.

 

[Moozillion]

Do you think I’m over-reacting? [emoji51]

 

[leigti]

Sorry to hear your turtle is sick she is very cute. I’m no vet, and I’ve never owned a water turtle, so you can take this for what it’s worth but since all of this seems to be happening a month after she nearly drowned then maybe it has something to do with that incident. She could have easily aspirated. And maybe she’s not eating because she just doesn’t feel well, might be heading towards pneumonia. I wouldn’t get her a shot of anything i’ve always heard that the vitamin shots are often dangerous.
So, there is my completely unprofessional, don’t really have a clue but trying to act on commonsense, suggestions. I hope she gets better soon.

 

[Moozillion]

Sorry to hear your turtle is sick she is very cute. I’m no vet, and I’ve never owned a water turtle, so you can take this for what it’s worth but since all of this seems to be happening a month after she nearly drowned then maybe it has something to do with that incident. She could have easily aspirated. And maybe she’s not eating because she just doesn’t feel well, might be heading towards pneumonia. I wouldn’t get her a shot of anything i’ve always heard that the vitamin shots are often dangerous.
So, there is my completely unprofessional, don’t really have a clue but trying to act on commonsense, suggestions. I hope she gets better soon.

I agree with you! Anthony P had warned me early on that turtles who have survived near drowning may appear to recover completely, only to decline after a period of time.
And I agree about injections.

Thank you for your kind support! [emoji2][emoji173]️

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

COME ON JACQUES ! ! ! !

 

[mark1]

I wouldn’t get her a shot of anything i’ve always heard that the vitamin shots are often dangerous.

anything can be dangerous if not used properly ........ I've given ade , vitamin b , and most any antibiotic used in reptiles more times than I can remember , I've yet to kill one with it , saved quite a few .......... a vitamin b deficiency is a big deal , that can be fatal ........... as far as a appetite stimulant it is a side effect ........ doesn't mean it's the answer , but vitamin deficiencies in reptiles are not exactly uncommon given unnatural diets .............. I had a wood turtle about two years ago didn't eat for 8 months , I have no doubt he was on his way out , appears to me the longer they don't eat , the more likely they're not going to , injections of vitamin ade , b , and a round of fortaz , I expect he's got a long life in front of him now .......... I understand your hesitance , I have the advantage of having long time experienced vets that I trust completely , they've impressed me a lot over the years , never seen them kill one , seen them save some I was sure were lost causes ......... they use a lot of stuff I've read on here they shouldn't , possibly less experienced vets can't use it properly , I guess ......

 

[Moozillion]

anything can be dangerous if not used properly ........ I've given ade , vitamin b , and most any antibiotic used in reptiles more times than I can remember , I've yet to kill one with it , saved quite a few .......... a vitamin b deficiency is a big deal , that can be fatal ........... as far as a appetite stimulant it is a side effect ........ doesn't mean it's the answer , but vitamin deficiencies in reptiles are not exactly uncommon given unnatural diets .............. I had a wood turtle about two years ago didn't eat for 8 months , I have no doubt he was on his way out , appears to me the longer they don't eat , the more likely they're not going to , injections of vitamin ade , b , and a round of fortaz , I expect he's got a long life in front of him now .......... I understand your hesitance , I have the advantage of having long time experienced vets that I trust completely , they've impressed me a lot over the years , never seen them kill one , seen them save some I was sure were lost causes ......... they use a lot of stuff I've read on here they shouldn't , possibly less experienced vets can't use it properly , I guess ......

So if my vet can refer me to a reptile specialist, do you think they might actually do her some good?

 

[mark1]

I would wait until I knew she was not doing well , visible symptoms aside from a poor appetite ....... as I think markw84 said , it is winter , it's a possible cause ...... they can go a long time without eating ....... i'd keep trying to get her to eat , spring isn't that far away , especially for Louisiana...... I myself am against medical intervention , but I do recognize it is often the only possible answer , I just keep it to a minimum ....... my turtles live outside , within their natural range , I had one get a respiratory infection one time , I told my vet how could that happen , he told me it happens in the wild , they just persist , either die from it or somehow recover , in captivity we help them recover .......... I would think an animal that slowly dies from a near drowning without symptoms would have to have sustained organ damage . aspiration pneumonia is a bacterial disease , it is pretty easily curable ...... you will see bubbles from her nostrils , especially if she pulls into her shell quickly , and hear wheezing .........

 

[Moozillion]

I would wait until I knew she was not doing well , visible symptoms aside from a poor appetite ....... as I think markw84 said , it is winter , it's a possible cause ...... they can go a long time without eating ....... i'd keep trying to get her to eat , spring isn't that far away , especially for Louisiana...... I myself am against medical intervention , but I do recognize it is often the only possible answer , I just keep it to a minimum ....... my turtles live outside , within their natural range , I had one get a respiratory infection one time , I told my vet how could that happen , he told me it happens in the wild , they just persist , either die from it or somehow recover , in captivity we help them recover .......... I would think an animal that slowly dies from a near drowning without symptoms would have to have sustained organ damage . aspiration pneumonia is a bacterial disease , it is pretty easily curable ...... you will see bubbles from her nostrils , especially if she pulls into her shell quickly , and hear wheezing .........

Ok, THANKS, mark1.
I will wait and watch.
I'm glad you spoke up because I was going to call my vet on Monday to get a referral to a reptile vet. According to TFOs veterinarian list, there are 3 in my immediate area. How lucky is that? My vet had previously mentioned one of them, Dr. Greg Rich, so he's probably the one I would see if it comes to that.

Thanks again for sharing your experience and advice!!!

 

[mark1]

i'd hate to see something happen to your Jacques , not many turtles on here as well known as her ....... a change in habit is a symptom in itself , environmental change can cause it , but they will eventually get back to normal .....it's been my observation ,land turtles often soak more than usual when not well , water turtles bask more than usual when not well ...... as far as things I wouldn't like my vet doing I see advocated is drawing blood on the little guys , it very seldom gets you any useful information ....... sick turtles almost always are vitamin deficiencies , bacterial infections , fungal infections or viral infections , often a combination of them and secondary problems resulting from those things , parasite overgrowth , organ failure , sepsis ..... did you feed the liver raw ? lots of vitamin A and B in liver , don't give up trying to get him to eat it , it would be good for him as a part of a varied diet , turtle or fish pellets too ....... I think guppies would be great , you might consider disabling them , cut off their tails , fed in a small confined place , a tuperware container with lots of guppies may stimulate his instincts enough to get him going ? or if he's not used to it , it may stress him out to where he doesn't eat ?

 

[Moozillion]

i'd hate to see something happen to your Jacques , not many turtles on here as well known as her ....... a change in habit is a symptom in itself , environmental change can cause it , but they will eventually get back to normal .....it's been my observation ,land turtles often soak more than usual when not well , water turtles bask more than usual when not well ...... as far as things I wouldn't like my vet doing I see advocated is drawing blood on the little guys , it very seldom gets you any useful information ....... sick turtles almost always are vitamin deficiencies , bacterial infections , fungal infections or viral infections , often a combination of them and secondary problems resulting from those things , parasite overgrowth , organ failure , sepsis ..... did you feed the liver raw ? lots of vitamin A and B in liver , don't give up trying to get him to eat it , it would be good for him as a part of a varied diet , turtle or fish pellets too ....... I think guppies would be great , you might consider disabling them , cut off their tails , fed in a small confined place , a tuperware container with lots of guppies may stimulate his instincts enough to get him going ? or if he's not used to it , it may stress him out to where he doesn't eat ?

Yes, I offered her the liver raw. This morning I tried raw salmon again, but no go.

Now that you mention it, there has been one HUGE change. Before the accident, the bottom of her tank was 1-2 inches of sand. She had plenty of traction and walked easily; sometimes she would dig herself a shallow sort of nest to rest in. But AFTER the accident, I removed ALL the sand so that her tank now has a bare glass bottom. That has done wonders for helping keep the water parameters at better levels. But she really struggles to walk on the bottom, slipping a lot because she has no traction. She spends more time on top of her plastic plants, whereas previously she was content to rest on the sand a lot.
I am going to make a sort of false bottom out of the same "egg crate" light baffle, covered with soft fiberglass mesh so that A) she can have traction and walk easily on the bottom, but B) the bottom will be easy removable for me, so that I can rinse it off at her weekly water changes.
I can see how bare bottom tanks work great for turtles who are strong swimmers, but for poor swimmers like muds, I think she would appreciate more traction and feel more comfortable.
THANKS for the idea!!!!!!

 

[Moozillion]

I considered using 1/2 - 1 inch rocks from Home Depot or Lowe's, but figured it would be harder to keep the tank clean, and that the rocks would shift and move.

 

[Moozillion]

Here's the new floor for her tank. It will cover about 80% of the tank bottom, but that also makes it easy for me to remove it for rinsing and cleaning. Her old basking platform had this on the top, which she used frequently, so this should feel familiar to her. Maybe it'll help her feel less stressed if it's easier for her to walk on the bottom of the tank.

 

[Moozillion]

Well, I did my weekly 50% water change and added the artificial floor that I put together so that she could walk on the bottom more easily.
WOWIE ZOWIE!!!!! As soon as I put her back in the tank she was walking around on the bottom! I hadn't seen her walk much at all since I took out the sand! She hasn't been on top of her plastic plants AT ALL for the past 3 hours or so, when previously she was on top of the plastic plants most of the time!!!! It seems clear to me nowthat she was really bothered by the slick glass bottom of the tank. Which makes sense for a poor swimmer who mostly crawls around the bottom of the tank!!!!!




And THIS was going to be an adorable shot of her napping on the tank floor under her heat lamp, but of course she opened her eyes just as I snapped the shot!!! HOW DO THEY KNOW??!?!?!?

 

[crimson_lotus]

I always try to take pictures of my turtle while sleeping, must be the vibrations that let them know someone's there. Stinks because I've missed some good shots!

With the mention of pneumonia, if she's not swimming lopsided I wouldn't worry about it. Equal buoyancy is good. Hope all goes well and she makes a full recovery.

When my turtle had pneumonia and parasites, he surprisingly still went for blood worms. You could just try that for kicks.

 

[Moozillion]

I always try to take pictures of my turtle while sleeping, must be the vibrations that let them know someone's there. Stinks because I've missed some good shots!

With the mention of pneumonia, if she's not swimming lopsided I wouldn't worry about it. Equal buoyancy is good. Hope all goes well and she makes a full recovery.

When my turtle had pneumonia and parasites, he surprisingly still went for blood worms. You could just try that for kicks.

Thanks!

I was thinking of blood worms but haven't been able to find a store that sells them.

 

[Moozillion]

JACQUES ATE A PIECE OF SALMON!!!!!
And she has been comfortably sprawled on her new tank floor all afternoon!!!!!

 

[Moozillion]

We're SOOOOO close!!!!!!

I thought I had finally gotten everything resolved for Jacques when she seemed so much more comfortable this afternoon and even ate a piece of salmon. A little while later I noticed she was twitching and jerking violently, frantically trying to reach the surface. I looked closely and saw one back foot bent slightly back: her toenail was snagged in the mesh of the new floor!!!!!! She managed to yank herself free but got snagged again with her very next step. So I pulled out the floor, cut off the mesh and put the egg crate floor back in again. It won't be soft and comfortable but she'll get traction and won't get snagged.
GEEZ LOUISE!!!!!! I didn't realize it would be so challenging to get a good substrate for her.
I've looked on Austin's Turtle Page/ The Turtle Forum, and most people seem to use sand for the substrate for their mud turtles. I don't know how they keep their water parameters right.

< SIGH > Hang in there, Jacques, baby: we'll get this sorted out!!!!!