Potential death of another Sulcata

[kennrocks]

If you see my earlier post, Stomper has passed on due to intimidation and then it stopped eating.

During it's process before death I've noticed that it became weak, jaw and soft shell. It was sleeping alot and wont keep moving during soak sessions.

Unfortunately, I have noticed that Chomper is now going through the same thing. I realized that it does not like to eat her greens, became very picky on food and only likes pumpkins now. It was munching on her bok choy, kale and choy sum very nicely before this. Due to the lack of eating, she has not been pooping much too. Which is making me extremely worried.

So if you refer to this video, you can see how it seems to be eating but very weakly. Even misses it's food quite often. It was really fine before this, just suddenly started acting up. I have thoroughly read Tom's thread and do not want to lose another baby Please help guys. I really don't know what to do anymore. I really don't know what I did wrong, temps are about 27celcius on the cool side and 34+celcius on the hot side, humidity at 80% *photos of the enclosure can be viewed in my previous post:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/abscess.145819/#post-1375307

*It's jaw is pretty weak now although I've been sprinkling cuttle bone on it's greens and regular sunshine atleast 5-6 times a week. It's jaw is so weak that i can easily use my finger to open it cause I realize it does not close it's beak completely and i opened it slightly to check whether there was anything lodged inside, it's clear no foreign object lodged inside. I do suspect RNS but no runny nose and it still has very clear wide opened eyes.

 

[kennrocks]

I just discovered that there is a lump on it's neck. It seemed to have dried up completely but I am very worried what that lump is. Parasites?

 

[kennrocks]

UPDATE:

Got her to the vet. Doc found abscess in her mouth. Which is why her mouth is hung open. Was prescribed with saline to flush and antibiotics for the infection. Hope she survives

Doc also suspects the cypress mulch might be mixed into her food as she likes walking all over them, causing the infection. Wondering whether i should transfer to newspaper sheets as bedding for the time being. Any comments?

 

[Blakem]

Do you soak it in warm water daily? What is the temperatures of your enclosure? It shouldn't get below 90f for that baby

 

[kennrocks]

Yes i do. Every single day. Provide 3 temps for her to move in and out of

 

[kennrocks]

UPDATE:

Doc prescribed as follows

 

[dmmj]

I would start sosking in warm & baby food (carrot). you need to get more nutrients into it somehow that's the best way. do you know how this tourist started? And were they bought from the same clutch?

 

[kennrocks]

I would start sosking in warm & baby food (carrot). you need to get more nutrients into it somehow that's the best way. do you know how this tourist started? And were they bought from the same clutch?

Tourist? Yes they are from the same clutch, Chomper and Stomper but only until recently these symptoms developed on Chomper

 

[leigti]

As stated above, I would do the baby food soaks. If it doesn't get some nutrients soon it won't make it.

 

[kennrocks]

As stated above, I would do the baby food soaks. If it doesn't get some nutrients soon it won't make it.

Noted on that! Will get it pronto!

UPDATE: After many googles, I've suspected that it is Mouth Rot instead of the vet identifying as abscess in its mouth. Yvonne shared a photo of mouth rot which was exactly what I saw in Chomper's mouth. Also symptoms like jaw misalignment was visible on her.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/mouth-rot-in-red-foot.134497/

 

[Nicole edwards]

View attachment 185839 View attachment 185840
I just discovered that there is a lump on it's neck. It seemed to have dried up completely but I am very worried what that lump is. Parasites?

This is mouth rot. My sulcata had this exact same problem around the age of yours. The lump on the neck in the same spot and all. Luckily I found an awesome doctor about 3 hours away but it was todally worth it. He was given antibotic shots and was prescribed Gentamicin ointment and Chlorexdine 0.2% solution to clean with. You really need to get to get this under control as quickly as possible. This can become very serious before you realize it. Attached are photos of mine when he was sick and now.

 

[Yvonne G]

It would be very unusual for such a young tortoise to have mouth rot. But here's what the Tortoise Trust says to do about it:

Stomatitis: If caught early, swab mouth twice daily with diluted Nolvasan or povidone-iodine (Betadine liquid). Severe infections need urgent veterinary treatment. Regular beak maintenance is important to prevent stomatitis. Some forms are caused by a herpes-group virus. Mixed colonies are much more at risk than small same-species groups maintained in isolation. Treatment is prolonged and often the prognosis is poor.

 

[Yvonne G]

Sorry, I wrote the above post earlier today but neglected to hit "Post Reply"

 

[kennrocks]

This is mouth rot. My sulcata had this exact same problem around the age of yours. The lump on the neck in the same spot and all. Luckily I found an awesome doctor about 3 hours away but it was todally worth it. He was given antibotic shots and was prescribed Gentamicin ointment and Chlorexdine 0.2% solution to clean with. You really need to get to get this under control as quickly as possible. This can become very serious before you realize it. Attached are photos of mine when he was sick and now. View attachment 185940
View attachment 185942

Yes it is indeed very serious at the moment, she has lost her appetite to eat and I'm currently trying to force feed some crvitical care oxbow product into her. Manage to get a few drops in her mouth and don't seem to spot any signs of her spitting it out. Doing it on multiple intervals a day to reduce stressing her and over stuffing her. Lump on the neck has subsided, with application of Chlorexdine, she's currently on Baytril to fight the mouth rot, I'm quite worried to request for an antibiotic shot as she is still really small. Your picture gives me hope buddy! I was really panicking yesterday and checking every hour since. Hope she pulls through

It would be very unusual for such a young tortoise to have mouth rot. But here's what the Tortoise Trust says to do about it:

Stomatitis: If caught early, swab mouth twice daily with diluted Nolvasan or povidone-iodine (Betadine liquid). Severe infections need urgent veterinary treatment. Regular beak maintenance is important to prevent stomatitis. Some forms are caused by a herpes-group virus. Mixed colonies are much more at risk than small same-species groups maintained in isolation. Treatment is prolonged and often the prognosis is poor.

She's a lone ranger in her enclosure. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this and prevent it from happening again

 

[kennrocks]

@Nicole edwards did you notice your little fella hanging it's jaw out a little during the mouth rot? How long did it take your tortoise to recover? Chomper is on her 2nd day of antibiotics, not moving much and not eating either. Although I let her out on the porch and she was moving quite a bit and then back to sleep, prolly knocked out from the antibiotics. A fellow forumer suggested to soak her in baby food, I'm currently using oxbow and according to its label, its packed with vitamins, calcium and energy so I'm not sure whether soaking her in baby food might overkill? Please advise, you are my only hope!

 

[Nicole edwards]

@Nicole edwards did you notice your little fella hanging it's jaw out a little during the mouth rot? How long did it take your tortoise to recover? Chomper is on her 2nd day of antibiotics, not moving much and not eating either. Although I let her out on the porch and she was moving quite a bit and then back to sleep, prolly knocked out from the antibiotics. A fellow forumer suggested to soak her in baby food, I'm currently using oxbow and according to its label, its packed with vitamins, calcium and energy so I'm not sure whether soaking her in baby food might overkill? Please advise, you are my only hope!

Baytril is the oral antibiotic rocky was on. He was only 52 grams and the antibotic shots did wonders. You can tell it is very painful though he was almost put to sleep when he got his. I would soak her in luke warm water mixed with carrot baby food, I'm not sure if that actually helped but it didn't hurt. And yes rocky would hold his mouth open you could tell he was in pain and he started showing signs of improvement in roughly 4 days or so. I would not worry too much about him not eating as Rocky lost 10grams in a weeks time. I would suggest to keep taking her outside to get some sunshine when it is warm and take some food to offer her while she's outside. If you have a local pet store like petsmart or petco see if they have the tortoise food that I posted a picture of below or something similar. Rocky would not touch anything green when he was sick so I had to resort to pet store food. I would soak the food in water to moisten it and that is the first thing I actually got him to eat after he was sick. Keep up hope!! And keep me updated! Also, let me know if there is anything I can help you with!!

 

[kennrocks]

Baytril is the oral antibiotic rocky was on. He was only 52 grams and the antibotic shots did wonders. You can tell it is very painful though he was almost put to sleep when he got his. I would soak her in luke warm water mixed with carrot baby food, I'm not sure if that actually helped but it didn't hurt. And yes rocky would hold his mouth open you could tell he was in pain and he started showing signs of improvement in roughly 4 days or so. I would not worry too much about him not eating as Rocky lost 10grams in a weeks time. I would suggest to keep taking her outside to get some sunshine when it is warm and take some food to offer her while she's outside. If you have a local pet store like petsmart or petco see if they have the tortoise food that I posted a picture of below or something similar. Rocky would not touch anything green when he was sick so I had to resort to pet store food. I would soak the food in water to moisten it and that is the first thing I actually got him to eat after he was sick. Keep up hope!! And keep me updated! Also, let me know if there is anything I can help you with!!
View attachment 185964

Chomper is about that weight too! Now I've noticed the bottom of her shell being quite soft. Almost like a thin piece of plastic. I'm not sure whether she has MBD or is it just her undeveloped shell as she's young but I do feed her kale and bok choy very often with a sprinkle of cuttlebone twice a week. Doc prescribed some saline to wash of her infection, I do it twice a day along with 0.1ml of Baytril daily. Hope she gets better tomorrow.

 

[Nicole edwards]

T

Chomper is about that weight too! Now I've noticed the bottom of her shell being quite soft. Almost like a thin piece of plastic. I'm not sure whether she has MBD or is it just her undeveloped shell as she's young but I do feed her kale and bok choy very often with a sprinkle of cuttlebone twice a week. Doc prescribed some saline to wash of her infection, I do it twice a day along with 0.1ml of Baytril daily. Hope she gets better tomorrow.

It's pretty normal for them to be that soft at that size and when she starts back to eating she will harden very quick

 

[kennrocks]

T


It's pretty normal for them to be that soft at that size and when she starts back to eating she will harden very quick

UPDATE: She has opened her eyes today. 3rd day on antibiotics. I've noticed some kinda bug in her substrate. Will be getting new substrate and change it immediately after class. I might suspect those pesky bug bite her neck, causing the lump. Doc said the lump might has caused an infection all the way to her mouth tho. Fingers crossed for this baby. Force feeding her 3-4 times a day of Oxbow critical care in a single drop of less than 0.1ml per feed.

 

[kennrocks]

Squinting eyes but finally open after 2 days being closed.