Potentially sick tortoise (advice needed)

[noodleduck]

Hello everyone. This is my first time posting here. I've had my Russian tortoise for about 3 months now, and up until a few weeks ago, he's been in good health. He typically has a ravenous appetite and uses the bathroom almost every day. Around two weeks ago he became less interested in food and spent entire days hiding or sleeping. I noticed he has stopped using the bathroom as frequently (it's been about a week since his last bowel movement), and he's been drinking more frequently. I've also noticed a foul smell coming from his cloacal area like urine. Soaking him does not get rid of the smell.

I have a vet appointment scheduled for the end of this week. In the meantime, what are some things I can do at home to help him? I've been giving him daily soaks and trying to handfeed to encourage him to eat. He will take a few bites of food before losing interest. He has been more active these past few days (walking around), but still no bowel movement or increase in appetite. I'm wondering if he has a bladder stone or UTI. Has anyone experienced anything similar? Is this something serious or common?

Some info about his setup: he is in a 8 ft x 4 ft enclosure with both heat lamp and UVB bulb. The temperature under the basking bulb is typically high 80s to low 90s, and the cool side is in the 60/70s. His diet consistent of dark leafy greens (boy choy, mustard greens, collard greens, watercress) and romaine lettuce and cucumber for hydration. I know his diet is not the best, but it's difficult finding the right food during the wintertime. I plan to feed him weeds once they start growing outside. I sprinkle calcium and vit d on his salads.

Any advice is GREATLY appreciated!

 

[Megatron's Mom]

Keep up the soaks, if it is constipation or urates it could help. Hopefully our more experience members will be around soon.

When you go to the vet ask for an x-ray and avoid vitamin shots.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Some tips for possible constipation/bladder stone:

• Try feeding mineral oil wrapped in lettuce to lubricate things up. You can also carefully swipe mineral oil on the outside of the cloaca wit a q tip
• Feed dilurantic foods like lettuce, cucumber, zucchini, pumpkin or aloe vera
• Use a large soaking dish with plenty of room to move in and keep the soaks long, 45 to 60 minutes (of course keeping the water warm)

'm wondering if he has a bladder stone or UTI.

To diagnose a bladder stone you would want to get an x-ray, though sometimes a vet is able to palpate the stone.

 

[noodleduck]

Some tips for possible constipation/bladder stone:

• Try feeding mineral oil wrapped in lettuce to lubricate things up. You can also carefully swipe mineral oil on the outside of the cloaca wit a q tip
• Feed dilurantic foods like lettuce, cucumber, zucchini, pumpkin or aloe vera
• Use a large soaking dish with plenty of room to move in and keep the soaks long, 45 to 60 minutes (of course keeping the water warm)

To diagnose a bladder stone you would want to get an x-ray, though sometimes a vet is able to palpate the stone.

I read something similar of using a few drops of vegetable oil on their lettuce to help them use the bathroom. I only had avocado oil (this was before realizing avocados are not the best for them) and it helped him relieve himself last week. That was last Thursday.

Can I put mineral oil in his soaking water if he refuses to eat?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Can I put mineral oil in his soaking water if he refuses to eat?

I don't think so. Maybe @Yvonne G can answer that. The idea behind them eating the mineral oil is to avoid aspiration or choking.

 

[noodleduck]

Keep up the soaks, if it is constipation or urates it could help. Hopefully our more experience members will be around soon.

When you go to the vet ask for an x-ray and avoid vitamin shots.

What is bad about vitamin shots?

 

[Tom]

Hello everyone. This is my first time posting here. I've had my Russian tortoise for about 3 months now, and up until a few weeks ago, he's been in good health. He typically has a ravenous appetite and uses the bathroom almost every day. Around two weeks ago he became less interested in food and spent entire days hiding or sleeping. I noticed he has stopped using the bathroom as frequently (it's been about a week since his last bowel movement), and he's been drinking more frequently. I've also noticed a foul smell coming from his cloacal area like urine. Soaking him does not get rid of the smell.

I have a vet appointment scheduled for the end of this week. In the meantime, what are some things I can do at home to help him? I've been giving him daily soaks and trying to handfeed to encourage him to eat. He will take a few bites of food before losing interest. He has been more active these past few days (walking around), but still no bowel movement or increase in appetite. I'm wondering if he has a bladder stone or UTI. Has anyone experienced anything similar? Is this something serious or common?

Some info about his setup: he is in a 8 ft x 4 ft enclosure with both heat lamp and UVB bulb. The temperature under the basking bulb is typically high 80s to low 90s, and the cool side is in the 60/70s. His diet consistent of dark leafy greens (boy choy, mustard greens, collard greens, watercress) and romaine lettuce and cucumber for hydration. I know his diet is not the best, but it's difficult finding the right food during the wintertime. I plan to feed him weeds once they start growing outside. I sprinkle calcium and vit d on his salads.

Any advice is GREATLY appreciated!

What type of UV bulb?

The tortoise would normally be brumating for the last three months. When brumation is skipped, it can have this effect on them.

What type of UV bulb? How long is it on each day?

What substrate are you using?

Is there any additional ambient lighting? The enclosure should look bright and "sunny" during the day.

Your temperatures are too cool. 60-70 is fine over night. Daytime should see warmer temps. 70s on the cool side and 80s on the warmer side. It should be around 100 directly under the basking bulb. Their digestive tracts and immune systems can't function when it is too cold for too long. All of the other things being discussed here might be contributing factors, but your temperatures being too cold for too long is most likely your issue.

Grocery store greens are fine to use when there are no weeds in a frozen winter, but you need to use the right ones and add in the correct amendments.

These two threads will help with the diet and other info:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

What is bad about vitamin shots?

The "vitamin" typically being injected is vitamin A. Aquatic turtles sometimes suffer from vitamin A deficiency when they aren't fed and housed correctly. Tortoise don't typically have this problem because most of what they eat is loaded with vitamin A. It is a tell tale sign that a vet does't know tortoises when they recommend a "vitamin shot".

 

[Megatron's Mom]

What is bad about vitamin shots?

Tom beat me to it, on top what he mentioned it can also cause the skin to sloth off at the injection site.

 

[noodleduck]

What type of UV bulb?

The tortoise would normally be brumating for the last three months. When brumation is skipped, it can have this effect on them.

What type of UV bulb? How long is it on each day?

What substrate are you using?

Is there any additional ambient lighting? The enclosure should look bright and "sunny" during the day.

Your temperatures are too cool. 60-70 is fine over night. Daytime should see warmer temps. 70s on the cool side and 80s on the warmer side. It should be around 100 directly under the basking bulb. Their digestive tracts and immune systems can't function when it is too cold for too long. All of the other things being discussed here might be contributing factors, but your temperatures being too cold for too long is most likely your issue.

Grocery store greens are fine to use when there are no weeds in a frozen winter, but you need to use the right ones and add in the correct amendments.

These two threads will help with the diet and other info:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The "vitamin" typically being injected is vitamin A. Aquatic turtles sometimes suffer from vitamin A deficiency when they aren't fed and housed correctly. Tortoise don't typically have this problem because most of what they eat is loaded with vitamin A. It is a tell tale sign that a vet does't know tortoises when they recommend a "vitamin shot".

Thank you, I will avoid this at the vet appointment.

 

[noodleduck]

Thank you, I will avoid this at the vet appointment. The UVB is a reptisun 10 strip bulb, about 3 months in use. Both basking bulb and UVB are on a timer from 7 am to 8 pm (13 hrs). Is that too much?

 

[noodleduck]

What type of UV bulb?

The tortoise would normally be brumating for the last three months. When brumation is skipped, it can have this effect on them.

What type of UV bulb? How long is it on each day?

What substrate are you using?

Is there any additional ambient lighting? The enclosure should look bright and "sunny" during the day.

Your temperatures are too cool. 60-70 is fine over night. Daytime should see warmer temps. 70s on the cool side and 80s on the warmer side. It should be around 100 directly under the basking bulb. Their digestive tracts and immune systems can't function when it is too cold for too long. All of the other things being discussed here might be contributing factors, but your temperatures being too cold for too long is most likely your issue.

Grocery store greens are fine to use when there are no weeds in a frozen winter, but you need to use the right ones and add in the correct amendments.

These two threads will help with the diet and other info:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The "vitamin" typically being injected is vitamin A. Aquatic turtles sometimes suffer from vitamin A deficiency when they aren't fed and housed correctly. Tortoise don't typically have this problem because most of what they eat is loaded with vitamin A. It is a tell tale sign that a vet does't know tortoises when they recommend a "vitamin shot".

I also forgot to add he has a fogger, and humidity is usually around 70%

 

[Tom]

I also forgot to add he has a fogger, and humidity is usually around 70%

This could be your problem too. They really shouldn't be breathing that mist. High humidity with low temperatures is not good. I'd stop using the fogger, add some ambient light, and bump up all your temperatures. I'll bet he snaps out of it then.

 

[noodleduck]

This could be your problem too. They really shouldn't be breathing that mist. High humidity with low temperatures is not good. I'd stop using the fogger, add some ambient light, and bump up all your temperatures. I'll bet he snaps out of it then.

I will adjust the fogger to lower the humidity. I know that sometimes when I ask my boyfriend to turn it on before work, he turns it up way too high and we don't find out until after work. Do you believe the symptoms my tortoise is having could be from him trying to brumate? Would that cause him to not use the bathroom (both 1 and 2) for a week? I got him to eat some lettuce with mineral oil on it today, but still no BM.

I'm sorry if I'm bugging you with too many questions, it's hard to find reliable info online and my little guy has me so worried!

 

[Tom]

I will adjust the fogger to lower the humidity. I know that sometimes when I ask my boyfriend to turn it on before work, he turns it up way too high and we don't find out until after work. Do you believe the symptoms my tortoise is having could be from him trying to brumate? Would that cause him to not use the bathroom (both 1 and 2) for a week? I got him to eat some lettuce with mineral oil on it today, but still no BM.

I'm sorry if I'm bugging you with too many questions, it's hard to find reliable info online and my little guy has me so worried!

I don't think he's trying to brumate now. The days are getting longer and the light is getting stronger day by day as we move into spring. He should have been brumating all winter. I find that when you don't brumate a temperate species, it sometimes leaves them a little discombobulated. Kind of like when you go all night with no sleep and then have to function the next day. You can power through it, but you fell pretty "off". Well, at least I do.

How often they poop and pee is directly related to how much they eat and drink. If he's not eating much because its to cold or too dim, or because he's sick from the fogger, there won't be anything to poop out.

You don't need to adjust the fogger down. You need to turn it off. Those should not be blowing directly into tortoise enclosures. Its not good for them to be breathing that mist.

Don't forget the very important parts about adding light and bumping up the temperatures all around.

 

[noodleduck]

I don't think he's trying to brumate now. The days are getting longer and the light is getting stronger day by day as we move into spring. He should have been brumating all winter. I find that when you don't brumate a temperate species, it sometimes leaves them a little discombobulated. Kind of like when you go all night with no sleep and then have to function the next day. You can power through it, but you fell pretty "off". Well, at least I do.

How often they poop and pee is directly related to how much they eat and drink. If he's not eating much because its to cold or too dim, or because he's sick from the fogger, there won't be anything to poop out.

You don't need to adjust the fogger down. You need to turn it off. Those should not be blowing directly into tortoise enclosures. Its not good for them to be breathing that mist.

Don't forget the very important parts about adding light and bumping up the temperatures all around.

Will do with the fogger. To increase the temperature of his enclosure safely (without cooking him), should I increase the wattage of the bulb? I currently have a 100 w bulb that's placed on top of the enclosure mesh wire lid. Should I get a 150 w and raise it up on a hook? I'll attach pictures of his enclosure.

 

[Tom]

Will do with the fogger. To increase the temperature of his enclosure safely (without cooking him), should I increase the wattage of the bulb? I currently have a 100 w bulb that's placed on top of the enclosure mesh wire lid. Should I get a 150 w and raise it up on a hook? I'll attach pictures of his enclosure.

Adding wattage and adding heating elements is one way to get it done. What works better at maintaining heat and humidity is to prevent all of your heat and humidity from escaping and floating up into the room through an open top. That is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. It just doesn't work.

I use large closed chamber to house my tortoises. It makes maintaining warm temperatures and whatever humidity level I want very easy. Do a search for "Smart Enclosures" or check this thread out to see what I'm talking about:

New Stack of Animal Plastics CLosed Chambers

AKA: Tom's baby emporium. @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today. Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the...

tortoiseforum.org

For some people, buying a new enclosure is not what they want to do for whatever reason. There are some alternatives: You can try to retrofit your current enclosure by closing it in, you can simply warm up and humidify the entire room to bring it up closer to what the tortoise needs, or you can buy a portable greenhouse tent to put over the existing enclosure to help hold in some heat and humidity.

I see another issue in your pics that should be pointed out: You are using coco fiber for substrate. Coco coir is a good substrate when kept damp and hand packed, but the coco fiber with those long hairlike strands is dangerous. You got the wrong substrate. Those strands will be accidentally ingested with the food and they are not digestible. They can cause constipation or impaction. This might be your problem. Many people get care info from the internet, a veterinarian, or a local reptile shop, and most of the time that info is wrong. Most people learn too late that the info they were given was wrong, so this is an effort to warn you about this problem before there is a disaster.

 

[noodleduck]

Adding wattage and adding heating elements is one way to get it done. What works better at maintaining heat and humidity is to prevent all of your heat and humidity from escaping and floating up into the room through an open top. That is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. It just doesn't work.

I use large closed chamber to house my tortoises. It makes maintaining warm temperatures and whatever humidity level I want very easy. Do a search for "Smart Enclosures" or check this thread out to see what I'm talking about:

New Stack of Animal Plastics CLosed Chambers

AKA: Tom's baby emporium. @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today. Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the...

tortoiseforum.org

For some people, buying a new enclosure is not what they want to do for whatever reason. There are some alternatives: You can try to retrofit your current enclosure by closing it in, you can simply warm up and humidify the entire room to bring it up closer to what the tortoise needs, or you can buy a portable greenhouse tent to put over the existing enclosure to help hold in some heat and humidity.

I see another issue in your pics that should be pointed out: You are using coco fiber for substrate. Coco coir is a good substrate when kept damp and hand packed, but the coco fiber with those long hairlike strands is dangerous. You got the wrong substrate. Those strands will be accidentally ingested with the food and they are not digestible. They can cause constipation or impaction. This might be your problem. Many people get care info from the internet, a veterinarian, or a local reptile shop, and most of the time that info is wrong. Most people learn too late that the info they were given was wrong, so this is an effort to warn you about this problem before there is a disaster.

I'm glad you clarified the difference between the substrate. I assumed I had the correct one because they both have coconut in it. I think you may be right about him potentially eating it. He's a messy eater and I've had to pick a few strands from his mouth. I'm taking my little guy to the vet today after work so

 

[noodleduck]

Adding wattage and adding heating elements is one way to get it done. What works better at maintaining heat and humidity is to prevent all of your heat and humidity from escaping and floating up into the room through an open top. That is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. It just doesn't work.

I use large closed chamber to house my tortoises. It makes maintaining warm temperatures and whatever humidity level I want very easy. Do a search for "Smart Enclosures" or check this thread out to see what I'm talking about:

New Stack of Animal Plastics CLosed Chambers

AKA: Tom's baby emporium. @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today. Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the...

tortoiseforum.org

For some people, buying a new enclosure is not what they want to do for whatever reason. There are some alternatives: You can try to retrofit your current enclosure by closing it in, you can simply warm up and humidify the entire room to bring it up closer to what the tortoise needs, or you can buy a portable greenhouse tent to put over the existing enclosure to help hold in some heat and humidity.

I see another issue in your pics that should be pointed out: You are using coco fiber for substrate. Coco coir is a good substrate when kept damp and hand packed, but the coco fiber with those long hairlike strands is dangerous. You got the wrong substrate. Those strands will be accidentally ingested with the food and they are not digestible. They can cause constipation or impaction. This might be your problem. Many people get care info from the internet, a veterinarian, or a local reptile shop, and most of the time that info is wrong. Most people learn too late that the info they were given was wrong, so this is an effort to warn you about this problem before there is a disaster.

I took my tortoise to the vet and got some worrisome news. It seems that my tortoise had an abscess on his leg that has spread to his lower body. The vet said it could be septicemia. She is sending a culture sample to the lab and he got a round of antibiotics. Are there any good sources on how to handle a tortoise with septicemia? What is the prognosis?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I took my tortoise to the vet and got some worrisome news. It seems that my tortoise had an abscess on his leg that has spread to his lower body. The vet said it could be septicemia. She is sending a culture sample to the lab and he got a round of antibiotics. Are there any good sources on how to handle a tortoise with septicemia? What is the prognosis?

From your side nothing special can be done: keep tortoise warm 80-85F day and night. If caught early and correctly treated with antibiotics, your tortoise can make it. But septicemia is a very severe condition.