Russian Tortoise Sick

[glenn24]

Hey guys, I have had a russian tortoise since he was young, for about 13 years. He recently stopped eating, so I looked into and i think it was because his beak was overgrown. i looked into cutting and starting cutting a little off at a time, and the first time i cut a little bit he started eating again. Now it had been a few trimmings and its down to a healthy enough length where he should be able to grind it back down using his slate i put his food on. But he hasnt been eating again, and he isnt even opening his mouth. His eyes are also swollen shut, but ive been soaking him in carrot baby food and cleaning his eyes with saline and his eyes get pretty much fully open and fine for an hour after each time, and longer the more I do it. he will walk over to his food, and even put his head on it like hes going to eat, but he doesnt. also i pried his mouth open and it looks fine, no sign of mouth rot or anything holding his mouth closed, but he was fighting me harddd and kept slamming it back shut. also he hasnt been particularly lethargic or anything. i was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions/ reasons he wouldnt be able to or wouldnt want to open his mouth? ive also been handling him significantly more so i am wondering if that could be a factor? he also got a new heat lamp and im worried it may not be keeping his hot enough? im just looking for any reason or anything to try!


Also he has the earliest appointment available at an exotic vet, but I read it could cause more harm to take him to the regular vet so it is a bit of a wait. i told them everything going on as well, and they didnt seem like it was an emergency.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
He might be trying to brumate (hibernate). Or there are some issues (like constipation, bladder stones etc).

Can you post some photos of him (beak and eyes, overall look)? And add some details on how you keep him (indoors/outdoors), what is enclosure's size, what heating/lightning you use and what are temperatures (nighttime low, daytime ambient, basking area)? How often does he poop, what consistency? Does he pass urates?

A good exotic vet can be helpful. Sometimes carrot soaks are not enough. Regular vet with no experience with reptiles and, in particular, tortoises can do harm, that's true.

 

[wellington]

It could be one of many things. When you do a beak trim, it should be done a little at a time over a couple days or so. He may have jaw pain from the way you may have held the beak.
It's getting colder out, winter coming, this is the time many try to brumate. Be sure he has a brightly lit enclosure for 12 hours a day and temps stay a little warmer, around 70 at night if you don't brumate him, a range of 75-80 throughout the enclosure during the day and a basking of 95-100.
Could be you went to short on the beak and it's tender.
How long ago did you do it?

 

[glenn24]

I trimmed it on Sunday for the last time. I also didnt realize he needed such specific temperatures until looking into this issue, so i am getting a thermometer ASAP to check. He has a big Uv Light that lights up his whole tank all day, and a heat lamp on one side. im attaching the heat lamp i have, but it is new so I am wondering if its keeping it colder than years passed.

 

[glenn24]

Hello!
He might be trying to brumate (hibernate). Or there are some issues (like constipation, bladder stones etc).

Can you post some photos of him (beak and eyes, overall look)? And add some details on how you keep him (indoors/outdoors), what is enclosure's size, what heating/lightning you use and what are temperatures (nighttime low, daytime ambient, basking area)? How often does he poop, what consistency? Does he pass urates?

A good exotic vet can be helpful. Sometimes carrot soaks are not enough. Regular vet with no experience with reptiles and, in particular, tortoises can do harm, that's true.

I have genuinely been probably a terrible tortoise owner (i got him as a kid so he wasnt actually my responsibility until recently and i just did what my parents did, based on what they were told at petsmart 13 years ago) and dont know about his bowel movements or urination, but I have been and will pay more attention. He pooped a little yesterday after i cleaned his eyes with saline, and then today he pooped when I opened his mouth. I will attach the lamps I have, and am getting a thermometer soon to try to keep his temps correct. he is indoors in an aquarium, possibly 70 gallon? i will look into size and let you know. I will also attach pictures of him shortly.

 

[glenn24]

I have genuinely been probably a terrible tortoise owner (i got him as a kid so he wasnt actually my responsibility until recently and i just did what my parents did, based on what they were told at petsmart 13 years ago) and dont know about his bowel movements or urination, but I have been and will pay more attention. He pooped a little yesterday after i cleaned his eyes with saline, and then today he pooped when I opened his mouth. I will attach the lamps I have, and am getting a thermometer soon to try to keep his temps correct. he is indoors in an aquarium, possibly 70 gallon? i will look into size and let you know. I will also attach pictures of him shortly.

 

[glenn24]

View attachment 380623

It is a 70 gallon tank, and this is his eyes about an hour after saline washing, and he opened them further like 2 minutes after i took the pictures.

 

[SinLA]

OK, the biggest thing you are going to have to come to terms with, is an adult Russian needs a space measured in FEET not inches - so you're not going to find any tank healthily large enough for them. So before anything else, do you think you can provide a space that is like 4' x 8' (think like a book case turned over on its back

 

[Sarah2020]

The tortoise looks good but they need space and correct conditions, diet, hydration and calcium to help strong bone, beak, claw and shell. Have a read of the care sheet to check what you have Vs recommended. Please ask questions as we all learn from each other. I have a russian tort and they are escape artists so ensure all exits are blocked. At this time of year they will slow down but you need it keep it awake with heat lamp and UV ights in the day throughout winter. Daily place it under a heat lamp to warm and provide a plate of fresh green leaves and water.

 

[glenn24]

The tortoise looks good but they need space and correct conditions, diet, hydration and calcium to help strong bone, beak, claw and shell. Have a read of the care sheet to check what you have Vs recommended. Please ask questions as we all learn from each other. I have a russian tort and they are escape artists so ensure all exits are blocked. At this time of year they will slow down but you need it keep it awake with heat lamp and UV ights in the day throughout winter. Daily place it under a heat lamp to warm and provide a plate of fresh green leaves and water.

thank you so much for the info!! i appreciate the kindness. i will be upgrading his enclosure soon, and making sure to follow the care sheet!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome!

There are a few things to address just based on some of the information you’ve given, size being the most important currently, he does need a much bigger space than that, it can be substituted for indoor free roaming which is highly discouraged for multiple reasons.

The uv light you’re using also isn’t an ideal choice and could be causing the eye issues you’re seeing.

I think you’ll find this thread I made super useful to read through, I cover correct equipment(lighting, heating and the right uv), substrates, levels, sizing, appropriately maintaining the humidity, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really good diet link to check out!

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

This one is also really good to go over, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I also encourage double checking new purchases on the forum before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope they help! Give them both a read and I’m always happy to try and answer any further questions!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Am I right, that UVB lamp is on the tank meshed top and distance to the tortoise is about 10-12 inches? I would turn it off completely for now and see if eyes issue will resolve.

Heat lamp, depending on bulb wattage can be too week. They also, usually heat only a small spot - not enough for tortoise to warm up properly. This can affect digestion and activity. Thermometer will tell you if this lamp works good enough. Get a digital (with display) one from a hardware store, it should be cheaper than those sold in pet stores.

70 gallon tank is not enough for tortoise to walk and that affects their health too. I'm glad you are working on the issue.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

When tortoises eyes are swollen shut they don't have much appetite. The carrot food soaks usually help within 3 to 4 days if they eyes are swollen due to vitamin A deficiency and the tortoise starts eating again. How long have you been doing the soaks for?

I would follow Alex's adviced and turn the UVB lamp off too and look into a better heat lamp. Improper lamps can cause eye problems too, and eye problems cause lack of appetite.

 

[glenn24]

When tortoises eyes are swollen shut they don't have much appetite. The carrot food soaks usually help within 3 to 4 days if they eyes are swollen due to vitamin A deficiency and the tortoise starts eating again. How long have you been doing the soaks for?

I would follow Alex's adviced and turn the UVB lamp off too and look into a better heat lamp. Improper lamps can cause eye problems too, and eye problems cause lack of appetite.

today would be day 4 on the carrot soaks. they seem the help every time, but by the next day his eyes are swollen again. also the first day i didnt leave him but maybe 15 min because my mom had me scared about overdosing vitamin A. should i stop the soaks or keep doing them? he still hasnt eaten so I am not sure it they are helping or not.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

today would be day 4 on the carrot soaks. they seem the help every time, but by the next day his eyes are swollen again. also the first day i didnt leave him but maybe 15 min because my mom had me scared about overdosing vitamin A. should i stop the soaks or keep doing them? he still hasnt eaten so I am not sure it they are helping or not.

He can't overdose on vitamin A by soaking, so continuing them wouldn't do any harm. Let's see if @Yvonne G has the time to look at your tortoises case.

 

[glenn24]

Am I right, that UVB lamp is on the tank meshed top and distance to the tortoise is about 10-12 inches? I would turn it off completely for now and see if eyes issue will resolve.

Heat lamp, depending on bulb wattage can be too week. They also, usually heat only a small spot - not enough for tortoise to warm up properly. This can affect digestion and activity. Thermometer will tell you if this lamp works good enough. Get a digital (with display) one from a hardware store, it should be cheaper than those sold in pet stores.

70 gallon tank is not enough for tortoise to walk and that affects their health too. I'm glad you are working on the issue.

the hanks for the advice, i turned the lamp off and hopefully his eyes will get better. that does make sense as the issue since everytime i take him out, soak him and saline his eyes he gets way better and then i put him back and it comes back.

 

[glenn24]

Hello and welcome!

There are a few things to address just based on some of the information you’ve given, size being the most important currently, he does need a much bigger space than that, it can be substituted for indoor free roaming which is highly discouraged for multiple reasons.

The uv light you’re using also isn’t an ideal choice and could be causing the eye issues you’re seeing.

I think you’ll find this thread I made super useful to read through, I cover correct equipment(lighting, heating and the right uv), substrates, levels, sizing, appropriately maintaining the humidity, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really good diet link to check out!

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

This one is also really good to go over, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I also encourage double checking new purchases on the forum before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope they help! Give them both a read and I’m always happy to try and answer any further questions!

thank you! i have checked both out and will be making the necessary upgrade as soon as i can!

 

[glenn24]

He does seem more lethargic today. He usually freaks out about 20 min into soaking and wants out, and now its been 20 min and hes not moving a lot, he is turning around and stuff but not physically trying to climb out. He also jeeps putting his head down under the water and i pull it out immediately and he seems annoyed? he did it a couple of times before but only like real quick and pulled it back himself, and now when he does it he like holds it there for a least a second but im scared to see how long he does it so i dont wait to see if he pulls it back out. it seems random like he wants to do it rather than weakness but not sure.

 

[glenn24]

He does seem more lethargic today. He usually freaks out about 20 min into soaking and wants out, and now its been 20 min and hes not moving a lot, he is turning around and stuff but not physically trying to climb out. He also jeeps putting his head down under the water and i pull it out immediately and he seems annoyed? he did it a couple of times before but only like real quick and pulled it back himself, and now when he does it he like holds it there for a least a second but im scared to see how long he does it so i dont wait to see if he pulls it back out. it seems random like he wants to do it rather than weakness but not sure.

Also, do you any of you know if I can trust him to move away feom his lamp if hes too hot? the side of the cage isnt too hot but idk about him being right under the lamp. hes able to walk and move but Im not sure if i should move him out of the lamp light at all.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Do you keep water warm while soaking?
There is a small chance that he got used to bathing but I wouldn't count much on that.

You can put something under his head (a flat pebble or a sponge) so he don't dip it in the water.

When do you have vet appointment?

He can move out of the lamp IF he is able to warm up his core. When lamp creates a too narrow spot of heat or just not powerful enough he can spend a lot of time desperately trying to raise body temperature.

Can you tell us lamp wattage (can be printed on the box or lamp itself)? And what's the distance between the heat lamp and tortoise shell? Also, you can put a thermometer under the lamp for an hour or two to check temperature.