Sick baby leopard

[ibchelle76]

We have a baby 4 month old leopard tortise. We messed uo Nd didnt have the uvb bulb so he hasnt been getting sufficient sunlight. Over the past few week he started not eating as much. We'll now for last 4 days he hasnt eaten at all. He doesnt open his mouth very much either. We have a vet appt tomorrow Monday. No sooner appt near us. I am very worried. Have been doing carrot soak and trying to get him to eat but he won't. His eyes have a film over them it looks like.

 

[Tom]

How much does he weigh in grams?

How have you been housing him? What temperatures, humidity, substrate, etc?

Do you soak him daily?

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[ibchelle76]

How much does he weigh in grams?

How have you been housing him? What temperatures, humidity, substrate, etc?

Do you soak him daily?

This thread will help you:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

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32grams, and 90 heat just started uvb bulb and humidity was around 40 but we just got new humidifier so 75 to 85 % now2 and saiky carrot soaks

 

[ibchelle76]

How much does he weigh in grams?

How have you been housing him? What temperatures, humidity, substrate, etc?

Do you soak him daily?

This thread will help you:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

And yes daily soaks since we got him and daily carrot soaks now

 

[Yvonne G]

He might be too hot. I raised many, many baby leopards and my closed enclosures were kept at 80°F day and night, and were VERY humid, with wet substrate.

 

[ibchelle76]

Thank you. I lowered it to 80 and see how poptart does. Praying he gets better and the vet can help him to get to eat again also

 

[COmtnLady]

Be cautious about veterinarians. Most don't know tortoises. Even ones that claim to be exotic vets don't necessarily know tortoises.

Don't allow them to talk you into vitamin shots, they do more harm than good. Your little one doesn't need them at all. What they mostly do is give the Vet something to pad your bill with.

Also be cautious about antibiotics. This info is from other threads here:

Baytril (enrofloxacin) tends to burn at the injection site and has been known to kill tortoises, but oral is ok, Fortaz (ceftazidime) or Vibramycin (a doxycycline) are better choices for torts.

I hope you have found the rare gem of a Vet who actually not only knows tortoises, but understands Leopards in particular, and how to adapt things for hatchlings.


Best of luck and keep us posted.



PS
is his plastron pink? It sort of looks like that but the angle and backgound could be influencing what the actual color is. Should that be the case, antibiotics are the only things that can help.






.

 

[ibchelle76]

Thank you very much. I will make notes so when I go tomorrow. Im hoping it will be ok.

 

[COmtnLady]

Please post a picture of his plastron.

 

[Tom]

32grams, and 90 heat just started uvb bulb and humidity was around 40 but we just got new humidifier so 75 to 85 % now2 and saiky carrot soaks

32 grams at four months tells the story. There is something wrong and a vet can't fix it. This baby is unlikely to survive because of an incorrect start and/or incorrect care. I would correct the conditions and save the vet money.

Where is it 90 degrees? It should be no lower than 80 anywhere in the enclosure day or night, and 90 is fine for an ambient day time high. It should be 100 directly under the basking flood bulb.

What is in that double hood? What kind of bulbs?

Humidifiers should not be used with leopard tortoises. Maintain humidity by using a large closed chamber. You can't maintain the correct conditions with a screen topped enclosure.

 

[ibchelle76]

We have this light and a CHE in the double hood. We are order the t5 light bar set also. Im trying my best to save out little guy.

 

[Tom]

We have this light and a CHE in the double hood. We are order the t5 light bar set also. Im trying my best to save out little guy.

The mercury vapor bulb is NOT the cause of the problem you are having, but it does cause other problems and should not be used. The UV output from those bulbs can be unreliable, with some making too much UV and others making none at all. The main problem is that the type of light and heat they emit is very desiccating and it cause the carapace to pyramid, even in warm humid conditions.

You need to understand that almost no breeders start baby tortoises correctly. They do it too dry, they skip the brooder box stage, and they don't soak enough. Many keep babies in open topped dry enclosure with dry substrate. This is totally unnatural and unhealthy and it can damage their kidneys in a single bad day. House them this way for weeks or months, and damage is almost certain.

These damaged babies often eat well, move around normally, and seem fine for a few weeks and even a few months, until they do what yours is doing. They get less active, their appetite slows down or stops, and they often have trouble opening their eyes. Lethargy sets in, their plastrons get soft and squishy like a sponge, and merciful death follows soon after.

A tell tale sign is lack of growth. Many of these babies grow to 50 grams and all seems good, and for whatever reason, their growth stops right around 50 grams. The bad ones with more damage or earlier damage, will sometimes stall at a smaller size, like yours has. Leopard tortoises hatch at around 25 grams and should double their hatch weight in the first month or so. By four months, they should befell over 100 grams for a slow grower, and 150 -200 grams for a normal grower that was started correctly and kept warm, humid and well hydrated.

What I want you to know is that what is happening right now might be the result of the breeder starting the baby incorrectly right after hatching, and it may have nothing to do with you and what you have, or haven't done. You housing the baby too dry. in an open topped enclosure, with the wrong bulb over it didn't help, but that is likely not the cause of this issue. What you did might start a healthy baby on a path to pyramiding, but it shouldn't have caused what is happening now.

We all want to help you save this baby, but you should prepare yourself for what is likely going to happen soon, and realize that you didn't cause it, and no one can stop it.

This explains it all in more detail:

"Hatchling Failure Syndrome"

I've heard this term for many years and I don't like it. Its a way to excuse our ignorance and failure. I will agree that an occasional hatchling is born that is just not going to make it no matter what anybody does, but MOST of them, if they make it full term and hatch, SHOULD survive and...

tortoiseforum.org

I'm sorry to give you such bad news, but better that you know what is going on. All of your questions are welcome.

 

[ibchelle76]

Thank you very much.

 

[ibchelle76]

Tom- Which uvb lighting kit or bar do you recommend, if from amazon if possible so we can get it quik. Want to make sure we get the right one to help our little guy the best. Thank you

 

[Tom]

Tom- Which uvb lighting kit or bar do you recommend, if from amazon if possible so we can get it quik. Want to make sure we get the right one to help our little guy the best. Thank you

The 12% Pro T5 kits from Arcadia are the best, but UV is not an immediate concern. Your other bulb should be producing plenty of UV. Your issue has nothing to do with UV. If you are using a calcium supplement with D3, then you really don't have a UV problem.

 

[ibchelle76]

Vet said metabolic bone disease or soft shell i guess they call it. Im not giving up on him yet. Im gonna keep trying to do eveything you guys have recommended

 

[Tom]

Vet said metabolic bone disease or soft shell i guess they call it. Im not giving up on him yet. Im gonna keep trying to do eveything you guys have recommended

That is a common misdiagnosis from a vet. They don't understand what is happening and are simply noticing the symptoms of the problem. They don't know or have any understanding of the actual problem.

They don't get MBD at this size. The softening shell is the result of all systems shutting down due to kidney failure. The kidney failure is due to early dehydration.

Where did you get the baby and how was it started?

 

[ibchelle76]

Reptile expo

 

[Tom]

Reptile expo

Pomona? Or Bakersfield? Do you remember the name of the seller? Were the babies at the show housed on something dry like rabbit pellets or hay?

 

[ibchelle76]

They told us to do warm soaks 10min evey other day. We did that for first few weeks and then started to do every day for 20min when I read another post.