Russian Tortoise Sick

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

He does seem more lethargic today. He usually freaks out about 20 min into soaking and wants out, and now its been 20 min and hes not moving a lot, he is turning around and stuff but not physically trying to climb out. He also jeeps putting his head down under the water and i pull it out immediately and he seems annoyed? he did it a couple of times before but only like real quick and pulled it back himself, and now when he does it he like holds it there for a least a second but im scared to see how long he does it so i dont wait to see if he pulls it back out. it seems random like he wants to do it rather than weakness but not sure.

It sounds like because he’s not 100% himself, he might be getting a quick drink when he dunks under but I’d definitely be paranoid about him staying under too lol

Also, do you any of you know if I can trust him to move away feom his lamp if hes too hot? the side of the cage isnt too hot but idk about him being right under the lamp. hes able to walk and move but Im not sure if i should move him out of the lamp light at all.

if you could answer Alex’s response on this above that’d be handy

 

[glenn24]

Do you keep water warm while soaking?
There is a small chance that he got used to bathing but I wouldn't count much on that.

You can put something under his head (a flat pebble or a sponge) so he don't dip it in the water.

When do you have vet appointment?

He can move out of the lamp IF he is able to warm up his core. When lamp creates a too narrow spot of heat or just not powerful enough he can spend a lot of time desperately trying to raise body temperature.

Can you tell us lamp wattage (can be printed on the box or lamp itself)? And what's the distance between the heat lamp and tortoise shell? Also, you can put a thermometer under the lamp for an hour or two to check temperature.

i do try to keep it warm, but it gets cold pretty fast. i add more warm water/ keep a heater on it but yeah. the lamp wattage was 25w and its about 20 inches from the tortoise shell

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

i do try to keep it warm, but it gets cold pretty fast. i add more warm water/ keep a heater on it but yeah. the lamp wattage was 25w and its about 20 inches from the tortoise shell

Height sounds fine though 25w might be a bit low depending on what kind of bulb it is? So you have a way of checking the temperature directly underneath? Like digital monitors you can leave under there for a few hours? Temp gun?

 

[glenn24]

Do you keep water warm while soaking?
There is a small chance that he got used to bathing but I wouldn't count much on that.

You can put something under his head (a flat pebble or a sponge) so he don't dip it in the water.

When do you have vet appointment?

He can move out of the lamp IF he is able to warm up his core. When lamp creates a too narrow spot of heat or just not powerful enough he can spend a lot of time desperately trying to raise body temperature.

Can you tell us lamp wattage (can be printed on the box or lamp itself)? And what's the distance between the heat lamp and tortoise shell? Also, you can put a thermometer under the lamp for an hour or two to check temperature.

the Vet appointment is next Friday but I am trying to look into emergency exotic vets near me also, though I dont think there is one.

 

[glenn24]

Height sounds fine though 25w might be a bit low depending on what kind of bulb it is? So you have a way of checking the temperature directly underneath? Like digital monitors you can leave under there for a few hours? Temp gun?

I don't right now, I just can feel that the tank is not unreasonably hot on that side, but I have a thermometer ordered.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I don't right now, I just can feel that the tank is not unreasonably hot on that side, but I have a thermometer ordered.

It’ll be good once that comes, you’ll have a clearer idea on your basking temperature and can adjust accordingly

 

[glenn24]

would moving the weaker lamp closer to him help or would that be bad?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

would moving the weaker lamp closer to him help or would that be bad?

You’ve got enough wiggle room to lower it a bit(I would have at absolute least 12inches distance from the top of the tortoises shell, 15 if possible) but only your monitors can answer to this, Im reluctant in advising lowering the height without knowing readings, but I don’t think a few inches would hurt in this case, 20 inches is quite high up for a basking bulb and it’s a low watt, though I’d also be curious to see the manufacturers recommend heights if you have packaging photos?

 

[glenn24]

You’ve got enough wiggle room to lower it a bit(I would have at absolute least 12inches distance from the top of the tortoises shell, 15 if possible) but only your monitors can answer to this, Im reluctant in advising lowering the height without knowing readings, but I don’t think a few inches would hurt in this case, 20 inches is quite high up for a basking bulb and it’s a low watt, though I’d also be curious to see the manufacturers recommend heights if you have packaging photos?

i dont have packing photos i looked on amazon where i bought them and it doesnt say a height either. ill lower it to about 15 inches for now. im going to be ordering one from the thread suggested to me yesterday soon, as i think maybe the low watt lamp + bad uv light are the source of all the issues. he may be going into brumation, because i realized his eyes dont just get better when i soak him or put saline, its also when i pick him up and mess with him a second like hes waking up. and i got these lamps a few months ago and he has never had any issues or gone into brumation prior

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

i dont have packing photos i looked on amazon where i bought them and it doesnt say a height either. ill lower it to about 15 inches for now. im going to be ordering one from the thread suggested to me yesterday soon, as i think maybe the low watt lamp + bad uv light are the source of all the issues. he may be going into brumation, because i realized his eyes dont just get better when i soak him or put saline, its also when i pick him up and mess with him a second like hes waking up. and i got these lamps a few months ago and he has never had any issues or gone into brumation prior

No worries, 15 inches should be fine for now and you’ll have an even better idea once your monitors arrive, it could be things have been too cold and that’s contributed, I’m sure once things are amended, given some time, he’ll improve

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

i dont have packing photos i looked on amazon where i bought them and it doesnt say a height either. ill lower it to about 15 inches for now. im going to be ordering one from the thread suggested to me yesterday soon, as i think maybe the low watt lamp + bad uv light are the source of all the issues. he may be going into brumation, because i realized his eyes dont just get better when i soak him or put saline, its also when i pick him up and mess with him a second like hes waking up. and i got these lamps a few months ago and he has never had any issues or gone into brumation prior

Put it even lower (10 inches or so). Also, if have the second spare bulb and a casual desk lamp - you can use it as well. Point both lamps over the same area. If you have any kind of thermometer at home (weather station, electronic medical thermometer) - you can try to use them to get a temperature measurement. This will be an inaccurate result but should give you an overall idea.

 

[glenn24]

flame the tortoise has died. i temp checked under the lamp and it was roughly correct so i let him sleep under his lamp and tried to mess with him minimally to let him warm up or whatever he needed to do. soaked him daily and he didnt seem to be getting worse, but when i checked on him just now he was completely stiff. thanks for all the suggestions and concern and sorry to mr flame for not doing my research.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Oh... I'm very sorry for your loss...

 

[Daffodil]

I'm so sorry. It sounds like you did all you could for him.

 

[SinLA]

I’m so sorry for your loss. Unfortunately too many years of that enclosure caught up to him. Maybe one day you’ll be in a better position to have a tortoise again.

 

[glenn24]

yeah maybe. or he got sick or anything else. also i would have been in
a fine position to have him had i just been given proper info when i got him like i have the space to have an enclosure that big and started working on it. but petsmart said he could live in the 40 gallon tank we got him in, forever. so we thought we were doing good by upgrading him to the 70.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

yeah maybe. or he got sick or anything else. also i would have been in
a fine position to have him had i just been given proper info when i got him like i have the space to have an enclosure that big and started working on it. but petsmart said he could live in the 40 gallon tank we got him in, forever. so we thought we were doing good by upgrading him to the 70.

Please, don't blame yourself for the bad advice you've got. Even when you do research on the Internet to cross-check care information you often see the same wrong stuff repeated again and again.

And PetSmart sells wild-caught Russian tortoises - you'll never know what has happened in his past life in the wild. Harsh living and transportation conditions and parasites could have undermined his health. And I'm pretty sure with PetSmarts animal turn-over he could have had any of the "emerging diseases" which are hard to prevent and diagnose.

Again, my sincere condolences. It's always hard to take and get through.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

flame the tortoise has died. i temp checked under the lamp and it was roughly correct so i let him sleep under his lamp and tried to mess with him minimally to let him warm up or whatever he needed to do. soaked him daily and he didnt seem to be getting worse, but when i checked on him just now he was completely stiff. thanks for all the suggestions and concern and sorry to mr flame for not doing my research.

I am so so sorry for your lossthis wasn’t your fault, so many, too many, get given the wrong care information, you absolutely did what you thought right by him, and like Alex says, who knows what he had been through prior to this being wild caught. I get so upset for you as the keeper to go through this, we absolutely should be able to take for granted a pet store is given correct advice. I’m glad you made your way to the forum, I’m sorry it wasn’t sooner, but should you ever want to try again in flames honour, we’ll be here to help you set up
Blaze brightly flame! You won’t be forgotten

 

[glenn24]

Please, don't blame yourself for the bad advice you've got. Even when you do research on the Internet to cross-check care information you often see the same wrong stuff repeated again and again.

And PetSmart sells wild-caught Russian tortoises - you'll never know what has happened in his past life in the wild. Harsh living and transportation conditions and parasites could have undermined his health. And I'm pretty sure with PetSmarts animal turn-over he could have had any of the "emerging diseases" which are hard to prevent and diagnose.

Again, my sincere condolences. It's always hard to take and get through.

thank you very much

 

[glenn24]

I am so so sorry for your lossthis wasn’t your fault, so many, too many, get given the wrong care information, you absolutely did what you thought right by him, and like Alex says, who knows what he had been through prior to this being wild caught. I get so upset for you as the keeper to go through this, we absolutely should be able to take for granted a pet store is given correct advice. I’m glad you made your way to the forum, I’m sorry it wasn’t sooner, but should you ever want to try again in flames honour, we’ll be here to help you set up
Blaze brightly flame! You won’t be forgotten

thank you so much ive appreciated all your help with him, and if i ever do ill make sure to come back to threads you shared with me