Sick baby leopard

[ibchelle76]

Pomona? Or Bakersfield? Do you remember the name of the seller? Were the babies at the show housed on something dry like rabbit pellets or hay?

I dont remember the name. 2 older white guys and had quite a few older tortises and younger ones. Bakersfield expo. They were in black open tubs with lettuce and i think bark if I remember. They told us to use pellets for substrate. And then we changed.

 

[ibchelle76]

I lost the card but saved their number

 

[ibchelle76]

Good morning. With my mercury vapor bulb 100 watt, how far above my baby should it be. Just wanted to make sure we are doing our best to help him. Thank you

 

[ibchelle76]

Good morning. With my mercury vapor bulb 100 watt, how far above my baby should it be. Just wanted to make sure we are doing our best to help him. Thank you

Disregard we finally got our Arcadia light

 

[ibchelle76]

Question. We have the Arcadia t5 light 12% and the che heat. Which basking bulk.is best as I believe we need to add that also? Thank you

 

[Tom]

Question. We have the Arcadia t5 light 12% and the che heat. Which basking bulk.is best as I believe we need to add that also? Thank you

Arcadia or Flukers bulbs are generally still available. Arcadia calls them flood bulbs. Flukers calls them "spot" bulbs, but at least some of them are floods.

Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

 

[Tortellini0000]

Have you checked out the link Tom gave above on the #2 post. He goes into detail about the 4 main light/heat you need.

 

[ibchelle76]

Thank you. I missed that

 

[ibchelle76]

Arcadia or Flukers bulbs are generally still available. Arcadia calls them flood bulbs. Flukers calls them "spot" bulbs, but at least some of them are floods.

Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Thank you for your help.

 

[ibchelle76]

Tom - where to i get a flood bulbs that will fit my double hood that we have? Can you recommend one on Amazon or at home depot by chance. Thank you very much.

 

[ibchelle76]

This is what we have

 

[Tom]

Tom - where to i get a flood bulbs that will fit my double hood that we have? Can you recommend one on Amazon or at home depot by chance. Thank you very much.

Our government, in their infinite wisdom, banned all incandescent bulbs a few years ago. You have to find a source selling the Arcadia or Fluke's brand to get a basking flood lamp.

Those double hoods are not a good way to go. Better to get the wider domed ceramic based ones from Home Depot. You also need to be figuring out a way to get a closed chamber type of enclosure. You can't maintain the correct conditions for a baby leopard tortoise with a screen top and the lights on top.

 

[ibchelle76]

We have these ones already 75 watt and it says incandescent also - Just checking

 

[mark1]

That is a common misdiagnosis from a vet. They don't understand what is happening and are simply noticing the symptoms of the problem. They don't know or have any understanding of the actual problem.

They don't get MBD at this size. The softening shell is the result of all systems shutting down due to kidney failure. The kidney failure is due to early dehydration.

is there any documentation to these statements?

personally i believe your vet is correct, that little tortoise is suffering from mbd along with most likely some type of secondary bacterial or viral infection, if not sepsis....

it appears to me the mechanisms behind MBD are well understood, the causes not so much, but mostly thought to be poor husbandry....it also seems the consensus from folks that study such stuff is MBD causes organ failure, not the other way around...... congenital mbd is said to be something that also occurs , it is thought to be able to cause death to tortoise and turtle embryo's during development, from a mother suffering from mbd or malnutrition.....

Assessment of dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry for use in evaluating the effects of dietary and environmental management on Hermann’s tortoises (Testudo hermanni)

Matteo Gramanzini, DVM; Nicola Di Girolamo, DVM; Sara Gargiulo, DVM, PhD; Adelaide Greco, DVM, PhD; Natascia Cocchia, DVM, PhD; Mauro Delogu, DVM, PhD; Isabella Rosapane, DVM; Raffaele Liuzzi, PhD; Paolo Selleri, DVM, PhD; Arturo Brunetti, MD

" It should be mentioned that hatchling tortoises were used in the study because they are more likely to develop metabolic bone disease than are adult tortoises."


Body condition of hatchling alligator snapping turtles (Macrochelys temminickii) confiscated from the illegal international wildlife trade
Malcolm L. McCallum 1 *, Stanley E. Trauth 2 , Benjamin A. Wheeler 3 and Richard L. Shelton

"Nearly 61% of the confiscated turtles had signs of metabolic bone disease."

 

[Tom]

is there any documentation to these statements?

Yes. A lifetime of first hand experience hatching and raising over 1000 tortoises of many species and caring for dozens of adults. In addition to diagnosing and observing 100s more all over the world, working closely with several practicing vet friends, collaborating and conferencing with dozens of other experienced tortoise keepers, and accepting/embracing mentorship from people who know more than me. A large percentage of that is documented here on TFO. Thanks for asking.

 

[mark1]

i was actually looking to read documentation as in published articles reviewed by other people who have studied/published similar work...........TFO is a great source of information, the best learning someone will get off this forum is in verifying what they read.....

myself personally, i'm not going to disparage someone's knowledge based on my personal opinion......... most people that eat, drink and buy diet products are over weight, so diet products must cause obesity...........

not being able to do blood work and x-ray this turtle, what do you suspect has led to what he looks like ????? is this mbd , or something else???? i've never raised a turtle or tortoise with MBD symptoms...... i have acquired a couple i think had at least had it at one point in their lives, due to their deformity.........

is pyramiding caused by MBD???? what is MBD????? out of those thousand tortoises you've raised how many had MBD?????