Pygmy Sulcata?

[Randoozle]

Sorry I feel like I'm posting on here so much, but after seeing how everyone is taking care of their torts I feel like a bad owner. Anyways, my sulcata just turned 2 years old and their shell length is only 4 inches. I saw on a post that it should be 6 - 10 inches by now. What am I doing wrong? She eats every day and I feed her a large variety of vegetables. Her tank is always warm, and the lowest it has ever gotten is 70° which I know is low for this species. Would that effect the growth?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello! Don't feel guilty about asking questions - that's the purpose of this forum And if you've started with the wrong care advice - no problem, many new keepers went through this (me is as well). Learning and caring about your tortoise is much more important.

Few factors can suppress the growth, like insufficient nutrition (e.g. mono lettuce diet), lack of exercise (tiny enclosure), stress (living with another tortoise) but as I get it, for baby tortoises proper hydration and temperatures are the most crucial. Unless things went really bad, correcting the husbandry will start a new growth spurt and your guy will eventually catch up in size and weight. Keep him warm and humid (80/80 rule). I've seen that you have brumated him and perhaps that was the most significant factor stunning his growth.

I believe, this post have been suggested already, but it's really worth reading: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-a-sulcata-leopard-or-star-tortoise.181497/

 

[ryan57]

They grow at different rates. My first one is a state pumpkin specimen and my second one (because my daughter bought one when my first one was missing) is half the size @ 6 months. Stump is over 28lbs @ 2 years old and shell is over 16" long, 11" wide and 8" tall. I fed mine Mazuri small tortoise LS mixed with greens daily for the first year or until about 3lbs and then Mazuri LS with greens and grass after 1 year like the manufacturer suggests. Nutrition = growth.

80 deg minimum, constant fresh food and mazuri, very important... drinking water, sunshine and exercise.

Stump sulcata tortoise on YouTube.

 

[ryan57]

Hello! Don't feel guilty about asking questions - that's the purpose of this forum And if you've started with the wrong care advice - no problem, many new keepers went through this (me is as well). Learning and caring about your tortoise is much more important.

Few factors can suppress the growth, like insufficient nutrition (e.g. mono lettuce diet), lack of exercise (tiny enclosure), stress (living with another tortoise) but as I get it, for baby tortoises proper hydration and temperatures are the most crucial. Unless things went really bad, correcting the husbandry will start a new growth spurt and your guy will eventually catch up in size and weight. Keep him warm and humid (80/80 rule). I've seen that you have brumated him and perhaps that was the most significant factor stunning his growth.

I believe, this post have been suggested already, but it's really worth reading: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-a-sulcata-leopard-or-star-tortoise.181497/

Absolutely correct. They are always ready to grow. Once they get the right conditions, they sprout very quickly.

 

[ryan57]

The main thing is a closed chamber to keep the heat and humidity in (simulating its burrow inside) and take it outside when it's nice this season. Portland weather is perfect in the spring summer and fall. I lived in Darrington WA and still have a boat in Anacortes.

 

[wellington]

You mentioned tank. I'm sure it's too small. You need to read the caresheet given and make changes ASAP.
What exactly is the diet?
Exact temps, basking, all over, night?
Humidity?
How often do you soak?
Get the appropriate size enclosure and humidity and temps where they need to be and improve diet if needed, adding mazuri if you haven't yet.

 

[Randoozle]

You mentioned tank. I'm sure it's too small. You need to read the caresheet given and make changes ASAP.
What exactly is the diet?
Exact temps, basking, all over, night?
Humidity?
How often do you soak?
Get the appropriate size enclosure and humidity and temps where they need to be and improve diet if needed, adding mazuri if you haven't yet.

I feed them romaine, red leaf, green leaf, cucumber, kale, and sometimes a carrot to snack on. The heat is at 80° and I have an automatic mister to keep the humidity also at 80, day and night. Maybe the tank is too small? They're usually burrowed in the same spot and don't walk around much, so I never thought about getting more space, but I'll make adjustments to that.

 

[wellington]

You said they. You have more than one? If so, they need their own enclosure and the tank is not good for one let alone two.
The diet needs improving ASAP. If you can't get flowers, leaves, weeds and grass yet then add arugula, escarole, endive, water cress, less of all the lettuce which is little nutrients and mostly water.
The temp needs to be 80 all over day and night but a basking spot of 95-100 with an incandescent flood bulb is needed or they can't digest their food and keep things inside moving properly.
Make changes ASAP.

 

[SinLA]

I feed them romaine, red leaf, green leaf, cucumber, kale, and sometimes a carrot to snack on. The heat is at 80° and I have an automatic mister to keep the humidity also at 80, day and night. Maybe the tank is too small? They're usually burrowed in the same spot and don't walk around much, so I never thought about getting more space, but I'll make adjustments to that.

I'm assuming "they/them" is used here to be gender neutral given the size/age of your tort, but if you do mean you have more than one, please clarify that.

Here's the thing, there is NO TANK that is large enough for a sulcata. This is a thread from just the other day about what happens to tortoises that aren't kept with enough space or proper conditions: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/it-should-never-get-this-bad.211827/

Can you elaborate a bit on the size of the enclosure and what you CAN do size wise? Understand that keeping a tortoise in too small an enclosure (see link above) is horribly cruel for it. Even though it may seem like it "fits" they need a LOT of space to roam (for digestion and build muscles). Sulcata can get to be over 100 lbs some well more than that. Its literally like keeping a baby horse in a closet hoping it doesn't need space bigger than a bathroom one day. COULD it survive? Possibly. but that's not how they should be kept.

Please post photos of your tortoise and its enclosure. It may feel like people are lecturing you or attacking you, people are just urgently trying to help you get the info you need to make changes. If you don't have the ability or space to make those changes - unfortunately that doesn't change their NEEDS.

 

[Randoozle]

You said they. You have more than one? If so, they need their own enclosure and the tank is not good for one let alone two.
The diet needs improving ASAP. If you can't get flowers, leaves, weeds and grass yet then add arugula, escarole, endive, water cress, less of all the lettuce which is little nutrients and mostly water.
The temp needs to be 80 all over day and night but a basking spot of 95-100 with an incandescent flood bulb is needed or they can't digest their food and keep things inside moving properly.
Make changes ASAP.

I only have one. I'm using they/them as I'm not sure the gender, I'm still at work, so when I get home I'm going to get to work on the enclosure and post a pic on a new thread to get more advice. I appreciate everyone's help.

 

[Tom]

Sorry I feel like I'm posting on here so much, but after seeing how everyone is taking care of their torts I feel like a bad owner.

You are definitely not posting too much. Questions are welcome! You aren't a bad owner. You just got the wrong care info, which is what happens to almost everyone.

Anyways, my sulcata just turned 2 years old and their shell length is only 4 inches. I saw on a post that it should be 6 - 10 inches by now. What am I doing wrong? She eats every day and I feed her a large variety of vegetables. Her tank is always warm, and the lowest it has ever gotten is 70° which I know is low for this species. Would that effect the growth?

Normal is around 20 pounds at that age. Fast growers can top 30 pounds. Most of them are started too dry and/or too cool as hatchlings, and this can make them grow significantly slower.

As reptiles, tortoises are dependent on the temperature we give them. Low temperatures cause a cessation or slowing of growth. Low temperatures also wreak havoc on the digestive flora and fauna, which prevents them from properly digesting and getting the necessary nutrition from what they are eating. 70 is too cool, and you previously said the tortoise was brumating and in the garage? How cold is/was it out there during what you called brumation?

I feed them romaine, red leaf, green leaf, cucumber, kale, and sometimes a carrot to snack on. The heat is at 80° and I have an automatic mister to keep the humidity also at 80, day and night. Maybe the tank is too small? They're usually burrowed in the same spot and don't walk around much, so I never thought about getting more space, but I'll make adjustments to that.

80 degrees is the minimum over night. Its not optimal for daytime. The daytime ambient needs to rise into the low 90s for this species. They come from subsaharan Africa. Its hot there all year long.

Automatic misters should not be needed in the correct type of enclosure. Misters cause evaporative cooling in a tank or enclosure where they are needed. This means you have the wrong type of enclosure and too much ventilation.

Your tortoise is likely burrowed in the substrate because conditions are all wrong. I don't say that to hurt your feelings. I say it so that you understand what is going on and that you need to fix it for your tortoise. If no one tells you what is wrong you can't know what to fix. I wish someone would have told me these things when I was starting out with sulcatas 25 years ago...

You are feeding the wrong foods. If you must use those foods from the grocery store, they need to be amended with calcium, fiber and variety for nutrition. All of that is explained in the care sheets that have been linked for you previously. A tortoise fed lettuce is not getting the calcium, fiber or nutrition that it needs. This, along with a small open topped enclosure and cold temperatures adds up to a lack of growth and failure to thrive. Again, don't take that as a personal insult. We can all see the you mean well and want to do a good job. You just found the usual bad info to follow, and that is why what we are telling you is so shockingly different. We don't want to make you feel bad and have you leave. Just the opposite, we want you to feel good! When you correct these problems and your tortoise begins to thrive and grow, you will be happy and your tortoise will be healthy. That is our only intention.

 

[ryan57]

Tom, perfect information (of course), tone and delivery!