pyramiding

[lovelyrosepetal]

I would like to know if you all see some pyramiding on my tort. It is easy for me to spot (sometimes) on other peoples torts but not on my own. I am afraid that I do see some pyramiding but I don't know if it is just me or if it is really there? Any of your comments would be appreciated and any insights on what to do differently. FYI I have read all of the hatchling posts and the pyramiding posts and my temps are good, I struggle with keeping the humidity above 70% (I do my best, though), I give soaks everyday, spray them constantly and they get a lot of outdoor time. With that said, fire away. Thanks!

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Also my tort is almost 3 months old. Feel free to give name suggestions on my other post in general tortoise discussion. Thanks, again!

 

[Biff Malibu]

Looks fine to me. It's a little early to start seeing the effects of pyramiding anyways.

Keep up the soaking and diet - your tort will grow just fine.

 

[mctlong]

Alot of growth for 3 months, He looks fantastic, Keep up the good work!

 

[wellington]

I personally see the very start of it. Like already said, keep up the soaks and maybe bump up the humidity or the humid hide. Keep in mind, sometimes, no matter what we do, some pyramiding may start, if they had a bad/dry start before we even get them. Keeping up the right way will start the new to grow in smooth and will probably not be noticed at all when larger. Yours to me is very slight.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

I bought mine from arizonasulcata, right off this forum. It has had daily soaks since day one and has been misted regularly. I have sometimes been able to keep the humidity at 90% but it is a challenge and has been known to get below 70%. When I build their new enclosure I might add a humidifier to help with keeping the humidity up but I do spray their shells and their enclosures, often, throughout the day. I think that I also see some pyramiding but I am at a loss as to what I can do better. If I could keep it more humid more often I would. Just now the humidity is at 74% and I am not sure what more I can do to keep it humid, other than a humidifier. Any thoughts on the subject?

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On a side note, my husband's tortoise has had the same care and I don't notice any pyramiding on its shell. I bought it from the same breeder and is a couple of weeks older than mine and my son's. I don't know how to explain it.

 

[Biff Malibu]

I think he's doing just fine. Really. It sounds like you are taking excellent care of him, and pyramiding is ultimately a cosmetic issue.

 

[wellington]

I don't think anything your doing is bad. Just keep it up. I really don't think it will get any worse. If I understand correctly, Arizona sulcata doesn't always breed their own. I may be wrong. But if I am right, they have no control on how it was hatched and raised before they get them. Just keep up what your doing.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

Hi Wellington, I am unsure about that. I think the confusion might be that austin is known on here as arizonasulcata but his business, hobby(?) is AZSulcata. Does that sound right? Does Austin sell his or does he get them from someone else and then sell them? I did not think that you were saying I did anything bad it is just that I think I agree with you and don't know what more to do. I will continue to try to keep the humidity up and continue what I am doing but I feel like I should do something more because otherwise there would not be any pyramiding.
Thanks Biff Malibu, I appreciate the kind words.
mctlong, Thank you. I will continue to read here and learn all I can and put it into practice.

 

[wellington]

Oops, sorry, not the same person I was thinking of. I have no idea if he only sells his own or not. The only other thing you can do, add a humidifier and put a top on the enclosure. If you can get the humidity to at least 80. However, that said, I think your setup and what you are doing is going to work out for you. A lot still goes back to the way they are hatched and raised before we get them. I really wouldn't worry about it.

 

[DesertGrandma]

I would be skeptical of anyone who tells you that one thing can control or correct pyramiding. Case in point: I have three 7 month old leopard babies from the same clutch. They are all housed together inside and outside, are kept at all the right temps, lighting, humidity, etc. and are all eating the same exact varied diet. Of the three, one is getting bumpy and the other two are as smooth as a babies butt. There has got to be a genetic basis for this. The breeder followed all the correct techniques from hatch, so dryness has never been an issue. Of note is that the one that is getting bumpy also has different physical characteristics than the other two even though they have the same parents (dominant/recessive genes), were hatched at the same temps, etc. etc. I am convinced now that genetics plays a big role in pyramiding, based on my personal experience.

 

[wellington]

I would be skeptical of anyone who tells you that one thing can control or correct pyramiding. Case in point: I have three 7 month old leopard babies from the same clutch. They are all housed together inside and outside, are kept at all the right temps, lighting, humidity, etc. and are all eating the same exact varied diet. Of the three, one is getting bumpy and the other two are as smooth as a babies butt. There has got to be a genetic basis for this. The breeder followed all the correct techniques from hatch, so dryness has never been an issue. Of note is that the one that is getting bumpy also has different physical characteristics than the other two even though they have the same parents (dominant/recessive genes), were hatched at the same temps, etc. etc. I am convinced now that genetics plays a big role in pyramiding, based on my personal experience.

Did some one say that one thing does. I don't see that. Did I miss something?

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

Wellington, Thanks. I will continue to do what I am. I will take your advice and get a humidifier in their new enclosure. I will be making that the middle of next month. I will also put a lid on it and see what happens.
DesertGrandma, I find your story very interesting. I had never heard of anything like that. My tortoise is one of three. Two look like there is some pyramiding and one looks so smooth. One is mine, one is my husband's and one is my son's. I take care of all three and treat them all the same. I am at a loss as to what more I can do. I will take the suggestion of the humidifier and try to up the humidity in the humid hide, but other than that I am not sure. I stated about the temps being right, the diet is as varied as I can with lots of natural grazing of grass and weeds with some clover. They get lots of exercise and are outside quite a bit. I am concerned about what more I should be doing. Thanks for your story, it is very interesting.
Tom, do you have any experiments on something that addresses this type of story?

 

[SulcataSquirt]

Here is what to do, Get a dish washing tub from walmart, flip it upside down and cut a doorway in it, get some good, substrate like coco coir to put inside, then bury some waterproof heat rope about 6 inches below the substrate in the humid hide you just made out of the tub, keep it nice and moist in their, you now have a heated humid hide that your tort will love and it will but 90 % humidity plus. your tort should take to it to sleep in every night since it will be a warm spot 24/7, if hes skeptical block him in their at nights and he will get use to it, this will greatly help hault the pyramiding along with daily soaks. also have a water bowl he can get in to himself. good luck! I also have a crane humidifier running in the enclosure to keep the rest of the humidity up.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

Thanks SulcataSquirt. I like that idea about the humid hide being a heated humid hide. Where should I get the waterproof heat rope? They already sleep in their humid hide but I never thought of a heated humid hide. I will definitely look into that. Thanks for the info.

 

[Tom]

I don't see any problem. Sometimes the growth lines are a little rougher, especially in a close up photo, but I can only speculate as to why. Your baby looks fine to me. What you are doing is working and I would not change it. Do the two of them live together? I have been raising groups of tortoises together for the last couple of years, and I too am at a loss to explain why some still pyramid a little and others don't at all, when everything SEEMS identical. I've tried to explain it behaviorally. For example, some drink more, spend more time under the hot bulb, or less time in the humid hide. Every time I start to get some evidence for a theory, I find an exception or something that seems to defy the norm. I think stress might be a factor, especially in a "pair" situation, but again, there are exceptions to every "rule".

BTW, Austin raises and breeds his own tortoises. He and I have talked a time or two in PMs and on the phone, and he does a fine job of starting and raising his babies. He's one of the few breeders that I recommend to people, when I am out of stock.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

Hey, thanks Tom. I appreciate your input and insight. I have pmd you some and wanted to let you know that I am the one who had the biting tort. The one that bit the other two is the one I pictured in this post. The one that seems to have a very smooth shell is my husbands' and the other one that also seems a little pyramided is my son's, not that it matters because I take care of all of them. Mine actually spends more time in the water dish but the least amount of time in the humid hide. I will just keep doing what I am and try not to worry too much. Although, that is like telling water not to be wet, worrying seems to be in my nature. I am glad to read that about Austin. He is really nice and very informative and I thought he bred the ones he sold. Good to know. Thanks again!

 

[jpmcclure]

I was having a problem with humidity as well. I bought the elephant baby humidifier, a hose and tried that but I swear it actually sucked the humidity out?? I couldn't figure that one out. So I returned that to target and bought a monsoon mister and it works great!! I wanna say it was around $85 but so worth it. It has a reservoir that I fill every couple days. It also has settings so you can set it to spray a few seconds or a few minutes and also you can set the intervals. I've got mine set to mist for one minute every 4hrs. Then off during the day while he's outside. My substrate stays nice and moist. It grew my grass seeds in a couple days in his enclosure. I'm not sure if this is something the experts would recommend so please ask them but after much trial and error with humidity, I've found this to work well for me. Just thought if share since I had such a problem myself.

 

[Arizona Sulcata]

Hey Rose, I'm out of town so I don't have access to a computer to open the pics as they won't open on my phone. If Tom says the look fine then I'd take his word for it. By the way, yes I do breed my own tortoises.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

Hi jpmcclure, Thanks for the info. I will look into the monsoon mister when I make my new enclosure. How do you attach a hose? I have never tried it or seen it, so all info. would be appreciated.
Hi Arizona Sulcata, Sorry for the misunderstanding. I forgot that there is someone here called arizonasulcata that sells tortoises. Are you already on your vacation? You will have to let us know how you liked your visit to the zoo. It is a nice zoo just a little small if you are use to the San Diego zoo. Just so everyone knows your business/hobby is AZSulcata and is not arizonasulcata. Thanks for your help. I agree, I refer to Tom on just about anything that is tortoise but I respect your opinion and thought I would add it to all the suggestions I am getting so I can do everything I can to help my tortoises. Thank you for answering me.
As a side note, Arizona Sulcata is one of the nicest guys and if you buy a tortoise from him he is prompt and helpful with any question you might have but to buy the tortoise is AZSulcata and is not under the name; arizonasulcata they are two different places to buy tortoises.

 

[jpmcclure]

Lovely. The humidifier I bought was in the pharmacy dept at target. It was an elephant. Then I went to home depot (with the humidifier) and bought a hose that fit snug and attached the end with a zip tie so it leaned into my enclosure (hose only). But the thing sucked all my humidity. The monsoon has 2 lines with a mister at each end. It attaches with suction cups so you can place them anywhere in your enclosure. It has a reservoir tank that you fill with distiller water every few days depending on the frequency of use.



This is a pic

I got it from amazon.com for $85.08

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Oh and if you go for the elephant instead, the hose attaches to its trunk. Very cute but didn't work well for me. Wish it did cuz when it was on it looked like fog and made the enclosure look like a tropical forest.