Pyramiding?

[AnnV]

I thought pyramiding *is* MBD.

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom,
I would be interested to read "what you read", can you share your sources?
Was there a study done as to whether they can absorb UVB through the shell or not?

Frequently when I have these discussions/arguments, people ask for citations. I simply do not keep a catalogue of the literally thousands of things I read and studied on the internet, in books, magazines, veterinary texts, conversations with practicing tortoise vets, tortoise lectures and conferences, etc... I hear or read it, file it in the brain, keep it in context with the other myriad info I've seen over the last 30+ years of reptile study and thats it. My critics love to exploit this weakness of mine, but it doesn't make what I assert untrue.

To answer your question further I have personally used these products, Zamric and many other forum members have used these products on a number of species and individuals over many years and not a single one of them has ever demonstrated any hint of MBD. Because there is not a scientific study to cite does not mean the obvious, right in front of our eyes, should be discarded.

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I thought pyramiding *is* MBD.

Some argue that pyramiding is a form of MBD, but for our purposes these are two separate issues. Often, due to improper husbandry, these two things occur simultaneously in the same animals.

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MBD = Sad

Yes MBD is sad. No argument there. However, topical shell treatments are NOT the cause of this sort of thing.

 

[TortoiseWorld]

Frequently when I have these discussions/arguments, people ask for citations. I simply do not keep a catalogue of the literally thousands of things I read and studied on the internet, in books, magazines, veterinary texts, conversations with practicing tortoise vets, tortoise lectures and conferences, etc... I hear or read it, file it in the brain, keep it in context with the other myriad info I've seen over the last 30+ years of reptile study and thats it. My critics love to exploit this weakness of mine, but it doesn't make what I assert untrue.

Yes MBD is sad. No argument there. However, topical shell treatments are NOT the cause of this sort of thing.

Yeah Tom all of us read lots of stuff out there and much of it seems to be contradictory. By knowing your resources can help us see for our selves rather then just trusting what someones says on an online forum.

Also I didn't say vita-shell causes MBD, but inferior UVB light can contribute to the possibility of MBD happening, and I was asking you how do you know for sure D3 conversion happens in the skin, not the shell?
I am sure there are many others who would also like to know this too. Your probably right about what you said but as you know there is so much disinformation out there so it's a challenge for a tortoise enthusiast like me to know the difference between the facts and fables.

 

[TortoiseWorld]

I did some more research and asked another reliable source, and from what I can read Tom is right about the D3 intake, and that in the wild the intake is through the skin, as I read on this article below.
I live in Chicagoland so calcium supplementation is very important because I can rarely offer natural sunlight. It's also interesting what it says about the basking heat requirement.


"Promoting Proper Bone Development"
"Vitamin D3 plays a pivotal role in bone formation, allowing the body to absorb calcium, and for maintaining the proper balance of calcium and phosphorus. A tortoise could eat calcium all day long, but if it was not getting an adequate amount of vitamin D3, it would not be able to absorb it properly.
In nature, herbivorous tortoises acquire all of their vitamin D3 requirements as a result of a chemical reaction in the skin, following exposure to the UV-B spectrum of sunlight. A compound is formed that is known as 7dehydroxycholesterol (this is sometimes also shortened to 7DCH or provitamin D). This in turn is converted, by means of temperature, to vitamin D proper. It is vital that both sufficient UV-B plus adequate basking temperatures are available if this process is to function properly. This is one reason why the new UV-B heat lamps (self-ballasted Mercury Vapour lamps) are so good. They provide both UV-B and the heat necessary to convert the 7DCH to a form that can ultimately be utilized by the calcium metabolism. A UV-B fluorescent tube alone will not do this. If such a tube is used, a separate source of basking heat is mandatory. Without an adequate source of heat, the conversion will not take place efficiently.
The degree to which you may need to use a supplement containing vitamin D3 will vary according to several factors, principal among these being how far north you are situated, and the number of hours exposure to natural sunlight your animals receive or the type and intensity of UV-B supplemental lighting employed."

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/calcium.htm
(Please read this link above )