Question about some weeds

chemprentice

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I've been feeding Spike some weeds from the backyard that, according to the Tortoise Table, are considered Do Not Feed items. However, they seem to be OK-ed on the forum, so now I'm conflicted on what weeds are considered safe for Spike to consume versus those that should never be fed. From the Tortoise Table, prickly lettuce is a Do Not Feed item because of its narcotic and sedative properties, which mean exactly what as consequences for a tortoise? Addiction and sleepy moods? Please help me understand why prickly lettuce shouldn't be fed.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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TTT is very conservative in what they suggest is acceptable food items. Frankly I have to re-read their mandate and information sources to critically suggest any more than to say they are very conservative.

In one such conversation in another venue someone from the 'tortoise protection group' said that the publishers of TTT have access to otherwise restricted research at Cambridge etc.. I don't believe that, it is counter to what Universities do. But that does reveal the level of dogma their list has inspired among keepers.

It is my own point of view that tortoises are able to accept a wide range of things to eat with no harm, but they do become specialist in preferences that can lead to ideas that 'they don't or should not eat that' . The evidence behind this POV is the bazillion comments here and elsewhere when people say "my tortoise will only eat ..." and they describe the tortoise having what could be thought of as an eating disorder brought on by keepers acting on what they feel is compassion and feeding an overabundance of things of questionable nutritional value.

I think the TTT folks are creating a list to guide keepers from these episodes of offering " treats" to the point of poor nourishment. An otherwise healthy tortoise will not become ill for one slice of cucumber, or grape. However if those things were a high proportion of the diet over an extended time they most certainly will alter the life long health of the tortoise. We create their 'addiction' to bad food choices.

The compromise in action by us is there is not an established frequency, for what I think of as diet enrichment, can be provided without compromising the tortoises' health of for that matter verve. We can all see a change in behavior when the small bit of some red food item is mixed in their salad is discovered. That is both nutrient and behavioral enrichment. I think it is easy to overdo that.

Back to the idea of some weeds that for the most part look the same to us - large variety with a base of those things TTT says feed in abundance is a good idea. But not the whole story. Some plants will seasonally or in response to short term changes in heat or water produce or not produce things that may be toxic, when all the rest of the year they are not toxic, or the reverse of this. It's not realistic to backtrack all observations of toxic responses of listed plants to that plant being always toxic, sometimes toxic, or a complete misread of the situation (not toxic at all). So being conservative has an advantage even as restrictive as it can be.
 

RosemaryDW

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Goodness, I’ve never read the Tortoise Table’s assessment of prickly lettuce before. That's interesting, considering its relationship to dandelions.

@trickspiration I find the Table extremely conservative but noticed what they state are the harmful elements are fairly low when the plant is young. You might keep this in mind and feed only young prickly lettuce if it worries you. My Russian rarely eats the older ones, I just assumed it was because they are excessively bitter.
 
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