Question! Complete closed enclosure

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waitmanff

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I am in the process of turning my two tortoise tables (that are put together) into a closed enclosure! I have bought two pieces of plexiglass and laid on top of the openings and cut a whole in one where the light goes and have already noticed my humidity increase by A LOT!

However, this may sound stupid but will he get enough air having both of the areas covered up?

Also, I have ordered a temp reader however, is there anything anyone recommends that measures humidity like a temp gun reader? I have little temp/humidity readers around different areas of my enclosure!

Also going to get some sphagnum moss too, I herd its good with keeping high humidity too! Is there a certain type I should get?

Thank you everyone for taking time out to help me!
 

ascott

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If you open the tops to put in food/water/to remove tort for soakings and such then you will allow some air exchange....just be sure that your temps never fall below 80 degrees day or night...:D
 

GBtortoises

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Keeping your tortoise in constant temperatures above 80 degrees day and night will usually lead to accelerated growth which in turn can cause lifelong physical deformities. No tortoise species is evolved to be exposed to such high temperatures constantly day and night, not in the wild and not in captivity. Tortoise species, regardless of whether they're an arid species, tropical species or temperate species all regulate their body temperature, which determines their activity level, by temperature. 80 degrees is near the threshold temperature of 85 degrees which is when almost all tortoises begin to seek shelter to escape heat. At 80 degrees a tortoises body functions and activity level is at 100%. By keeping them at temperatures this high consistently their system is working constantly in activity mode which means that muscles, tissue and organs are constantly calling for nutrients. This constant need and consumption causes a tortoise to grow faster than in normally would for a tortoise of the same age kept in correct conditions. Accelerated growth is almost always the result. The growth will show up in the hard body parts; the shell, beak and nails where deformities will occur and over time the tortoise may develop the odd appearance of the body being too small for the shell. This appearance and it's often resulting growth deformities are due to the rapid growth which the catalyst for is temperatures too consistently hot.
The advice to keep tortoises above 80 degrees day and night is poor husbandry advice that may result in a tortoise or tortoises with health and growth issues.
 

waitmanff

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GBtortoises said:
Keeping your tortoise in constant temperatures above 80 degrees day and night will usually lead to accelerated growth which in turn can cause lifelong physical deformities. No tortoise species is evolved to be exposed to such high temperatures constantly day and night, not in the wild and not in captivity. Tortoise species, regardless of whether they're an arid species, tropical species or temperate species all regulate their body temperature, which determines their activity level, by temperature. 80 degrees is near the threshold temperature of 85 degrees which is when almost all tortoises begin to seek shelter to escape heat. At 80 degrees a tortoises body functions and activity level is at 100%. By keeping them at temperatures this high consistently their system is working constantly in activity mode which means that muscles, tissue and organs are constantly calling for nutrients. This constant need and consumption causes a tortoise to grow faster than in normally would for a tortoise of the same age kept in correct conditions. Accelerated growth is almost always the result. The growth will show up in the hard body parts; the shell, beak and nails where deformities will occur and over time the tortoise may develop the odd appearance of the body being too small for the shell. This appearance and it's often resulting growth deformities are due to the rapid growth which the catalyst for is temperatures too consistently hot.
The advice to keep tortoises above 80 degrees day and night is poor husbandry advice that may result in a tortoise or tortoises with health and growth issues.



The way my enclosure is set up I that it has a basking area measuring around 95 degrees. The close surrounding area to that basking spot is around 80 and then the other side of the enclosure is measuring around 70 and humidity is in the 80%.

All my leopard has been wanting to do is stay in his humid hide box on the cooler side of his enclosure.

I assume if he gets wants more warmer temperatures he will walk over to his warmer side? I have only had him for a few days!
 

mikeh

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The cut opening for the light (I assume its round hole for basking light) is sufficient for constant fresh air circulation.

sent from mobile device using TFO app
 

Tom

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GBtortoises said:
Keeping your tortoise in constant temperatures above 80 degrees day and night will usually lead to accelerated growth which in turn can cause lifelong physical deformities. No tortoise species is evolved to be exposed to such high temperatures constantly day and night, not in the wild and not in captivity. Tortoise species, regardless of whether they're an arid species, tropical species or temperate species all regulate their body temperature, which determines their activity level, by temperature. 80 degrees is near the threshold temperature of 85 degrees which is when almost all tortoises begin to seek shelter to escape heat. At 80 degrees a tortoises body functions and activity level is at 100%. By keeping them at temperatures this high consistently their system is working constantly in activity mode which means that muscles, tissue and organs are constantly calling for nutrients. This constant need and consumption causes a tortoise to grow faster than in normally would for a tortoise of the same age kept in correct conditions. Accelerated growth is almost always the result. The growth will show up in the hard body parts; the shell, beak and nails where deformities will occur and over time the tortoise may develop the odd appearance of the body being too small for the shell. This appearance and it's often resulting growth deformities are due to the rapid growth which the catalyst for is temperatures too consistently hot.
The advice to keep tortoises above 80 degrees day and night is poor husbandry advice that may result in a tortoise or tortoises with health and growth issues.


This is right on for Testudo and any temperate species, but DEAD WRONG for sulcatas leopards and other tropical tortoises. Tropical species most definitely ARE evolved to deal with constant high temps. Haven't you ever been to the tropics? Have you ever looked at the weather across sulcata territory? I've been following the weather over there since November of 2011. A cool rainy day still hits 98. Ever checked the temperature 3' underground, where sulcatas hang out when the above ground temps are hitting 100+ everyday? It hovers right around 80.

Are you going to tell me that my 3 and five year old tortoises suffer from any of the symptoms you elaborated on? Not a one of them does. I've raised 100s of tortoises this way and not a single one has a single symptom that you listed. Now I've seen lots of improperly kept Russians and Greeks that meet your descriptions perfectly, but that is not what you are saying here. You said "No tortoise species..." And that is wrong. You have now swerved out of your lane.

I'm highly offended that you are calling this fantastic breakthrough in tortoise care "Poor husbandry advice". Of the hundreds of sulcatas and leopards I've started this way not a one of them has "health or growth issues". They are all very healthy and growing very well. It took more than 20 years to figure out and correct this mistake. I will not sit by quietly while you try to drag us back to the dark ages of beef jerkey makers and respiratory infections, with pyramided disfigured tortoises. Are you going to make me waste my time by posting 500 pictures of smooth, normally growing healthy tortoises that have never been below 80 degrees in their entire lives? I'll do it if you wish to argue this point with me. I can prove what I'm saying, can you? Where are your pics of tropical tortoises that you've raised this way that have health and growth issues?
 

nate.mann

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Tom said:
GBtortoises said:
Keeping your tortoise in constant temperatures above 80 degrees day and night will usually lead to accelerated growth which in turn can cause lifelong physical deformities. No tortoise species is evolved to be exposed to such high temperatures constantly day and night, not in the wild and not in captivity. Tortoise species, regardless of whether they're an arid species, tropical species or temperate species all regulate their body temperature, which determines their activity level, by temperature. 80 degrees is near the threshold temperature of 85 degrees which is when almost all tortoises begin to seek shelter to escape heat. At 80 degrees a tortoises body functions and activity level is at 100%. By keeping them at temperatures this high consistently their system is working constantly in activity mode which means that muscles, tissue and organs are constantly calling for nutrients. This constant need and consumption causes a tortoise to grow faster than in normally would for a tortoise of the same age kept in correct conditions. Accelerated growth is almost always the result. The growth will show up in the hard body parts; the shell, beak and nails where deformities will occur and over time the tortoise may develop the odd appearance of the body being too small for the shell. This appearance and it's often resulting growth deformities are due to the rapid growth which the catalyst for is temperatures too consistently hot.
The advice to keep tortoises above 80 degrees day and night is poor husbandry advice that may result in a tortoise or tortoises with health and growth issues.


This is right on for Testudo and any temperate species, but DEAD WRONG for sulcatas leopards and other tropical tortoises. Tropical species most definitely ARE evolved to deal with constant high temps. Haven't you ever been to the tropics? Have you ever looked at the weather across sulcata territory? I've been following the weather over there since November of 2011. A cool rainy day still hits 98. Ever checked the temperature 3' underground, where sulcatas hang out when the above ground temps are hitting 100+ everyday? It hovers right around 80.

Are you going to tell me that my 3 and five year old tortoises suffer from any of the symptoms you elaborated on? Not a one of them does. I've raised 100s of tortoises this way and not a single one has a single symptom that you listed. Now I've seen lots of improperly kept Russians and Greeks that meet your descriptions perfectly, but that is not what you are saying here. You said "No tortoise species..." And that is wrong. You have now swerved out of your lane.

I'm highly offended that you are calling this fantastic breakthrough in tortoise care "Poor husbandry advice". Of the hundreds of sulcatas and leopards I've started this way not a one of them has "health or growth issues". They are all very healthy and growing very well. It took more than 20 years to figure out and correct this mistake. I will not sit by quietly while you try to drag us back to the dark ages of beef jerkey makers and respiratory infections, with pyramided disfigured tortoises. Are you going to make me waste my time by posting 500 pictures of smooth, normally growing healthy tortoises that have never been below 80 degrees in their entire lives? I'll do it if you wish to argue this point with me. I can prove what I'm saying, can you? Where are your pics of tropical tortoises that you've raised this way that have health and growth issues?

this is seconded by myself.
 

waitmanff

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Tom,

Should I add another heat source to the other side of my enclosure? The one that is measuring around 70/75 degress?

My tortoise seems to be wanting to stay on the cooler side and hasn't been going over to the warmer side since I've got him.

Any suggestions?
 

Tom

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waitmanff said:
Tom,

Should I add another heat source to the other side of my enclosure? The one that is measuring around 70/75 degress?

My tortoise seems to be wanting to stay on the cooler side and hasn't been going over to the warmer side since I've got him.

Any suggestions?

Yes, in my opinion. With humidity, I do not let any portion of the enclosure drop below 80 day or night.
 

Levi the Leopard

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waitmanff said:
1-However, this may sound stupid but will he get enough air having both of the areas covered up?

2-Also, I have ordered a temp reader however, is there anything anyone recommends that measures humidity like a temp gun reader? I have little temp/humidity readers around different areas of my enclosure!

3-Also going to get some sphagnum moss too, I herd its good with keeping high humidity too! Is there a certain type I should get?

1- ascott said it, each time you open the door you'll get air exchange. It isn't air tight and you'll open the door a few times each day at least.

2- If you already have temp/humidity readers around your enclosure you are good to go. To my knowledge there is no "humidity gun".

3- You can get this from the pet store or any garden center. Keep in mind the pet store will have smaller quantities for a higher price.

waitmanff said:
Should I add another heat source to the other side of my enclosure? The one that is measuring around 70/75 degress?

One of the BEST things you can do is to set up a CHE over the center of the enclosure plugged into a thermostat. Put the probe in the farthest corner and set it to 80F. This will make sure your ambient never drops below this and at night when the heat bulbs are off, it will click on to maintain this temp, too. Now that you have covered the top of your enclosure you'll find that in addition to humidity keeping up, the heat will increase too.
For example, I used to keep a 25watt reg house bulb over my cool end of my tank converted closed chamber because I wanted additional lighting. It heated up too much. Then I tried a 15watt. Still too much heat. Then a 7.5 watt. No heat but hardly any light. I now use a tube fluorescent in my cool end for lighting without the extra heat.
You might have to play around a bit until you find a new balance.
 

Saleama

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Through many minutes of research, I found that the best price on Sphagnum peat moss is at Lowes in their garden center. You can get a 9 cubic ft bag for just under 9 dollars. Home depot comes in second with a 1 cubic foot bag for 4.50. You do not want to pay petsmart or petgo prices. I can get all of my habitats, two 5 x 4, one 6 x 2.5 and one 2 x 3 along with several plant tubs filled twice with just one bag and that is at a 3 - 6 inch depth with one bag from Lowes.
 

Levi the Leopard

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Saleama said:
Through many minutes of research, I found that the best price on Sphagnum peat moss is at Lowes in their garden center. You can get a 9 cubic ft bag for just under 9 dollars. Home depot comes in second with a 1 cubic foot bag for 4.50. You do not want to pay petsmart or petgo prices.

Just a little food for thought..

I bought a bag of sphagnum moss last year. I went with the small pet store bag for $4 because I wanted to test it and make sure I liked it before buying the mondo size bags from the garden centers. I'm glad I tested it first because I personally didn't like it. It was "ok" but not needed in my circumstance so I was glad I didn't by the 9 cu.ft. bag!
 

waitmanff

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Team Gomberg said:
Saleama said:
Through many minutes of research, I found that the best price on Sphagnum peat moss is at Lowes in their garden center. You can get a 9 cubic ft bag for just under 9 dollars. Home depot comes in second with a 1 cubic foot bag for 4.50. You do not want to pay petsmart or petgo prices.

Just a little food for thought..

I bought a bag of sphagnum moss last year. I went with the small pet store bag for $4 because I wanted to test it and make sure I liked it before buying the mondo size bags from the garden centers. I'm glad I tested it first because I personally didn't like it. It was "ok" but not needed in my circumstance so I was glad I didn't by the 9 cu.ft. bag!



Thank you everyone!!


Team Gomberg said:
waitmanff said:
1-However, this may sound stupid but will he get enough air having both of the areas covered up?

2-Also, I have ordered a temp reader however, is there anything anyone recommends that measures humidity like a temp gun reader? I have little temp/humidity readers around different areas of my enclosure!

3-Also going to get some sphagnum moss too, I herd its good with keeping high humidity too! Is there a certain type I should get?

1- ascott said it, each time you open the door you'll get air exchange. It isn't air tight and you'll open the door a few times each day at least.

2- If you already have temp/humidity readers around your enclosure you are good to go. To my knowledge there is no "humidity gun".

3- You can get this from the pet store or any garden center. Keep in mind the pet store will have smaller quantities for a higher price.

waitmanff said:
Should I add another heat source to the other side of my enclosure? The one that is measuring around 70/75 degress?

One of the BEST things you can do is to set up a CHE over the center of the enclosure plugged into a thermostat. Put the probe in the farthest corner and set it to 80F. This will make sure your ambient never drops below this and at night when the heat bulbs are off, it will click on to maintain this temp, too. Now that you have covered the top of your enclosure you'll find that in addition to humidity keeping up, the heat will increase too.
For example, I used to keep a 25watt reg house bulb over my cool end of my tank converted closed chamber because I wanted additional lighting. It heated up too much. Then I tried a 15watt. Still too much heat. Then a 7.5 watt. No heat but hardly any light. I now use a tube fluorescent in my cool end for lighting without the extra heat.
You might have to play around a bit until you find a new balance.

Heather, exactly what is a CHE? Where do I find one? And how exactly does it work?
 

Levi the Leopard

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The CHE is a Ceramic Heat Emitter. They heat the space with no light. I bought mine on Amazon.com for like $15.

Sent from my TFOapp


Here is a picture of one of mine. I hold it a 10" porcelain based dome.

Sent from my TFOapp
 

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waitmanff

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Team Gomberg said:
The CHE is a Ceramic Heat Emitter. They heat the space with no light. I bought mine on Amazon.com for like $15.

Sent from my TFOapp


Here is a picture of one of mine. I hold it a 10" porcelain based dome.

Sent from my TFOapp



Okay I do have one of those, I didn't realize thats what it was called, sorry im still new at this. I guess now I need to buy a thermostat to plug it into?
 

Levi the Leopard

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We all were new at one point ;) and ALL of us will continue learning new things...so no worries!
I bought my digital thermostat by Hydrofarm for $28. Works great.

Sent from my TFOapp
 
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