Radiata Breeding Questions

[Tom]

Hoping @zovick and @Sterant will chime in, but I'd love to hear from anyone who knows the answers.

My questions: At what size do male radiata start being able to produce offspring? I have three 16 inch 10-11 year old females and I've been looking for a male for some time now. A friend of mine here in CA is offering me two young males at a great price. They are 6 years old and about 8 or 9 inches in length. Super smooth, raised and fed well.

Would I be better off to pass on these and keep looking for a larger male? Are they big enough to get the job done, or might it be another couple of years? Better to get just one? Or good to have two? How combative are the males of this species with each other.

My girls are in a large outdoor enclosure that wraps around three sides of a building, so they can all go their separate ways. About 1500 sq. feet total. I was planning on letting them all (males and females) live together full time, but it would be easy to separate a male, or males, as the night box has a divider I can use. Best to have them separate most of the year, or together full time?

Last one: What time of year to they typically lay?

Thanks to all in advance.

 

[zovick]

Hoping @zovick and @Sterant will chime in, but I'd love to hear from anyone who knows the answers.

My questions: At what size do male radiata start being able to produce offspring? I have three 16 inch 10-11 year old females and I've been looking for a male for some time now. A friend of mine here in CA is offering me two young males at a great price. They are 6 years old and about 8 or 9 inches in length. Super smooth, raised and fed well.

Would I be better off to pass on these and keep looking for a larger male? Are they big enough to get the job done, or might it be another couple of years? Better to get just one? Or good to have two? How combative are the males of this species with each other.

My girls are in a large outdoor enclosure that wraps around three sides of a building, so they can all go their separate ways. About 1500 sq. feet total. I was planning on letting them all (males and females) live together full time, but it would be easy to separate a male, or males, as the night box has a divider I can use. Best to have them separate most of the year, or together full time?

Last one: What time of year to they typically lay?

Thanks to all in advance.

Radiated males usually become able to produce offspring at about 10-11 years of age. This normally equates to a size of around 13" SCL There are a couple cases of 9 year old males producing babies, but that is unusual. I believe that both size and age are factors. IE, if you have a 7 year old male that is 12-13" long, his gonads are probably not mature enough to produce viable sperm. Neither is the plastron normally concave enough to allow for successful mounting of a female at that young an age.

Most male Radiateds are quite combative with other males. It doesn't hurt to have two to stimulate each other and arouse interest in breeding, but I would keep them in separate pens and alternate each one in with the three females once a week or so. Alternatively, you could keep a 1.1 pair in one pen and a 1.2 trio in the other pen, then move the males every week or so to stimulate breeding interest. If both males seem disinterested in the females, then put the two males in the same pen, let them fight for a while, then separate them out again. That generally produces good breeding efforts right afterwards.

My CB females generally lay eggs every 4-6 weeks from May or June right on through December or January. Some will even lay eggs every month of the year.

 

[tglazie]

This is great info that I also wanted to know, though my oldest animal is only four years old at this point, so I won't have to consider these matters for a few more years. How old/large must females be to produce offspring? My marginated tortoise Lady Gino, the biggest of my girls, was nine when she first started laying eggs, but she didn't actually produce fertile ones until she was eleven, and she started producing more consistent clutches when she was 13. Margie, my second, followed a very similar trajectory. I'm sure this will improve as they both get older. But is it the same for rads? Do the females produce more consistently the older they are? What sort of changes can one anticipate as the ladies grow older and larger?

T.G.

 

[zovick]

This is great info that I also wanted to know, though my oldest animal is only four years old at this point, so I won't have to consider these matters for a few more years. How old/large must females be to produce offspring? My marginated tortoise Lady Gino, the biggest of my girls, was nine when she first started laying eggs, but she didn't actually produce fertile ones until she was eleven, and she started producing more consistent clutches when she was 13. Margie, my second, followed a very similar trajectory. I'm sure this will improve as they both get older. But is it the same for rads? Do the females produce more consistently the older they are? What sort of changes can one anticipate as the ladies grow older and larger?

T.G.

The females generally start laying eggs at 10-12 years of age and about 13" SCL. I know of one female who produced a fertile clutch at 9 years of age, but that is quite rare, the same as I mentioned for males. How long they can produce fertile eggs is anyone's guess. Here is some interesting info on that:

I received a WC adult female in the spring of 1974. She began breeding with one of my males that summer and laid fertile eggs for me in her first clutch. She is still producing fertile eggs now, 44 years later, for her current owner. Another female of mine who laid her first fertile eggs in 1972 was producing live babies from then until 2016 when she was accidentally poisoned with ant poison (by her subsequent owner, not me).

 

[Sterant]

As a small side note to everything Bill said - he recently sent me a 7 year old male who is about 11.5 or 12" long. He has been very active circling and pushing some of my smaller females lately, but hasn't tried to mount any of them (that I've seen). I have a 12 year old male who is about 14" scl and though he has been actively breeding for 2 years now, its just this year that he's really controlling the situation. He has been able to regularly flip his female of interest, and stop her from flipping him. He's much more aggressive than prior years.

I have another 14 year old male, 15" long who has never been around adult females until last year. he was unsuccessful last year, and even this year is regularly being flipped over by both of my adult females. So in addition to size and age, experience seems to play a major role as well.

My female, last year, nested 6 times. She nested once in March - which we think was retained from the prior fall, May, June, August, September and November.

 

[Tom]

@Sterant , What advice do you have for me?

-Let these males grow up and mature for a couple years with the girls? Or keep looking for a mature male? Sometimes its an advantage to let the male grow into maturity in his new place. This worked well for Jerry Fife with Ken's male Galop. What about radiata?
-House the male(s) separately and introduce for breeding (This worked AMAZINGLY well for my platynota…), or let them live together full time?

 

[Sterant]

@Sterant , What advice do you have for me?

-Let these males grow up and mature for a couple years with the girls? Or keep looking for a mature male? Sometimes its an advantage to let the male grow into maturity in his new place. This worked well for Jerry Fife with Ken's male Galop. What about radiata?
-House the male(s) separately and introduce for breeding (This worked AMAZINGLY well for my platynota…), or let them live together full time?

Realistically, it is probably going to be 5 or 6 years before those males are up to the task. I know you are a patient guy, so if that's not a problem, I like the idea of them having plenty of time to adjust to your place. @zovick will be able to draw on many more years of experience, but I have seen better results if the males are kept alone for most of the time, and then introduced to the female when you want them to mate. I leave the male in with the female for 5 days or so, then I separate them again giving her time to eat and nest. once she nests, I give her a few days to eat and regain some energy, then I introduce the male again for another 5 days or so....and so on and so on. I know many people that keep them in herds all the time, but I don't like doing that. @zovick taught me most of this stuff so lets let him chime in here.

 

[Yvonne G]

@Sterant , What advice do you have for me?

-Let these males grow up and mature for a couple years with the girls? Or keep looking for a mature male? Sometimes its an advantage to let the male grow into maturity in his new place. This worked well for Jerry Fife with Ken's male Galop. What about radiata?
-House the male(s) separately and introduce for breeding (This worked AMAZINGLY well for my platynota…), or let them live together full time?

My experience with Manouria emys emys (I know, this is about Radiata!) is letting the immature male grow up with the females inhibits his interest in breeding. I separated him to his own yard for a season and when I put him back his interest in breeding had peaked.

 

[Tom]

Realistically, it is probably going to be 5 or 6 years before those males are up to the task. I know you are a patient guy, so if that's not a problem, I like the idea of them having plenty of time to adjust to your place. @zovick will be able to draw on many more years of experience, but I have seen better results if the males are kept alone for most of the time, and then introduced to the female when you want them to mate. I leave the male in with the female for 5 days or so, then I separate them again giving her time to eat and nest. once she nests, I give her a few days to eat and regain some energy, then I introduce the male again for another 5 days or so....and so on and so on. I know many people that keep them in herds all the time, but I don't like doing that. @zovick taught me most of this stuff so lets let him chime in here.

Listening (Well… technically reading, but…) and learning. Thank you.

 

[Sterant]

My experience with Manouria emys emys (I know, this is about Radiata!) is letting the immature male grow up with the females inhibits his interest in breeding. I separated him to his own yard for a season and when I put him back his interest in breeding had peaked.

Agreed.

 

[Sterant]

I just noticed that Bill addressed much of the male behavior and how he introduces them to females and his suggestions on how to keep the younger males in a post above. Everything he says has worked for me here as well.

 

[Star-of-India]

I have 3 male Radiateds and one female. I’m thinking that I need to sell 2 of the males as due to chaos in life I haven’t been able increase their housing as I should have in the past year.

They are very smooth and attractive rads in any case. They are 12”, 11” and 10”, but only 4 1/2 years old. They are not in the stud book, although the mother of the 11” male was apparently #443. I purchased them from Pet Kingdom in San Diego 4 1/2 years ago. I believe all 3 have minor scute defects. I’d want to keep one of the two larger ones.

 

[Stoneman]

My experience with Manouria emys emys (I know, this is about Radiata!) is letting the immature male grow up with the females inhibits his interest in breeding. I separated him to his own yard for a season and when I put him back his interest in breeding had peaked.

Do you think that I would be able to house juveniles together for convenience, and then separate them a year before breeding, and then reintroduce them when it is time for them to reproduce? I know the point you were making is that they would be best separated until that time, but it seems like it worked to separate and reintroduce.