Redfoot/Yellowfoot hybrid

[Anyfoot]

...and some horse/donkey crosses have ended up fertile.

Damn you for saying that, Dawn says there has been cases of a fertile mule, I wasn't having it. She is right again. 16yrs together and I've never been right yet. lol

 

[HLogic]

Damn you for saying that, Dawn says there has been cases of a fertile mule, I wasn't having it. She is right again. 16yrs together and I've never been right yet. lol

Something I've learned, even when you are "correct", you are not likely "right" when dealing with 'them'! ;-)

 

[rande]

Damn you for saying that, Dawn says there has been cases of a fertile mule, I wasn't having it. She is right again. 16yrs together and I've never been right yet. lol

you will be rewarded for being “not right” ^_^

 

[Twist]

IMO, the juvenile(s) do have the appearance of being hybrids - a decidedly RF carapace and very YF head morphology (scalation excluded). I'm not at all convinced these animals are of even a marginally increased value. This 'appeal' seems unique in the animal world. I can think of no other occasion where a mutt is valued more than a purebred - vanity notwithstanding (ligurs, labradoodles, cockacraps, etc.).

Have you not heard of designer mix breed dogs. The maltipoo is one that is very sought after. I paid more for a true mini Poodle and Maltese mix that had I bought a pure bred of either breed. So long as the red and yellow cross breeding is safe and not a health risk. I say why not.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Wouldn't mixed Red/Yellow hybrids be found in the locations where the two live near each other if this was at all common and the offspring fertile?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I'm no purist.
But mixing species to make a buck makes me a bit uneasy.
Especially a reputable breeder.

 

[domalle]

Wouldn't mixed Red/Yellow hybrids be found in the locations where the two live near each other if this was at all common and the offspring fertile?

Know of no recorded cases of redfoot/yellowfoot hybridism in nature even where the ranges of the two species overlap and they are known to coexist. But hybridization between the two is known to occur in close-quartered confinement in captivity (there is also a documented case of redfoot/radiated tortoise hybridization).
Agree that the tortoises in question here are mixed yellowfoot/redfoot offspring. Adult male yellowfoot/female redfoot --
You are right to be concerned about intentional breeding of disparate tortoise species but this usually happens, and in this case probably was, unintentional.
Redfoot and yellowfoot identification has historically been confused even in zoos and museum collections. This was often true in museum collections because colors, especially reds and oranges, were rapidly lost in preserved specimens.
Separation of the two species wasn't officially recognized and accepted until Williams analysis of extant museum specimens in 1960.

 

[Twist]

I'm no purist.
But mixing species to make a buck makes me a bit uneasy.
Especially a reputable breeder.

Your point is valid but the bottom line is always the money. I would never jeopardize the Health and well being of any animal chasing the dollars. However if am awesome looking Hybrid Tort was born and is healthy that would be very cool. If I did hatch some hybrids I would sell most and keep on maybe two. The money from the rest would go to my Torts. Always ways to make a bigger and better habitat for them.

 

[domalle]

Wouldn't mixed Red/Yellow hybrids be found in the locations where the two live near each other if this was at all common and the offspring fertile?[/QUOT

Zeropilot raised an interesting question. The question was a good one and deserved a more direct answer than I provided originally.

If the respective offspring of a Yellowfoot/Redfoot pairing in nature were fertile and could therefore reproduce, it would imply that Redfoots and Yellowfoots were in fact a single species, which plainly they are not.

If the mixed offspring occurred naturally and proved fertile by reproducing, ultimately the two species could, over time, merge into a new form entirely. Nature has provided safeguards in the respective species' biology and behavior to prevent this from happening. Otherwise, the closely-related but distinct animals we know as Chelonoidis carbonarius, the Red-Footed tortoise and C. denticulatus, the Yellowfoot, would disappear.

Many redfoot bloodlines, however, have been lost or polluted in captivity through blending and mixing. Commercial pressures and interests prevail and the reliability and validity of information on specimen provenance is muddied and can rarely be established or confirmed with any surety. Attesting to the purity of bloodlines in captive Redfoots, with some notable exceptions, is a dicey and questionable exercise.

 

[Anyfoot]

I've always assumed that because we keep them in such close quarters in captivity that the desire to copulate eventually wins over. In the wild they have options.
If they did crossbreed in the wild and even if the offspring were infertile you would think we would have seen adult hybrids by now. So on that assumption they simply don't pair up in nature.

 

[Wendy Proulx]

I’m starting to think that my baby, who was bought as a yellow foot, is actually a hybrid. Thoughts?

 

[Anyfoot]

Why?

 

[Wendy Proulx]

I didn’t know any better and got him from a tortoise Mill. Just curious cause some day o may get into breeding, but if he is a hybrid, I won’t use him. Right now he is my only tort anyway

 

[Anyfoot]

He looks like a classic yellowfoot to me.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Me too.
I kinda like those angular scutes.

 

[domalle]

I've always assumed that because we keep them in such close quarters in captivity that the desire to copulate eventually wins over. In the wild they have options.
If they did crossbreed in the wild and even if the offspring were infertile you would think we would have seen adult hybrids by now. So on that assumption they simply don't pair up in nature.

That's assuming we could identify an adult hybrid as such on sight. We don't know what they would mature into phenotypically.
BTW Craig, how do you 'tag' someone to ensure they see a message?

 

[domalle]

I’m starting to think that my baby, who was bought as a yellow foot, is actually a hybrid. Thoughts?

The color on a yellowfoot can range from a dull to bright orange or yellow but is always uniform across the individual animal. The yellowfoot does not display the ofttimes extreme scale color variation and combinations found on many redfoots, especially in the north and Pantanal region. Unfortunately, the issue of identification based on color alone can be confusing. There are many examples of dully colored nondescript redfoots across their wide range. These redfoots are uniform in color with no notable variation or contrast in color across their scaled skin parts (eg., the uniform yellow, dark-shelled tortoises from Panama, the redfoots' northernmost range).

The so-called cherryhead redfoots from Southeast Brazil are like the yellowfoots in this one regard, uniformity of color. The cherryhead's color ranges from yellowish to orange, salmon, rose-pink or red but whichever color phase and however vivid, it is uniform on the animal. Orange-scaled marbled cherryheads are being advertised for sale reputed to originate in northeastern Brazil. This would be a new, previously unreported population but is unlikely. Highly-marbled cherryheads have always tended to orange coloration.

Wendy's nice little turtle is definitely a yellowfoot as Zeropilot and Anyfoot indicate, a very pretty, nicely colored one. It also shows the standard denticulate (toothed) anterior (front) carapace margin of the juvenile yellowfoot, hence the species' Latin designation 'denticulatus'.

 

[Anyfoot]

@domalle. I'm surprised at you for using the C word. Lol.
I just tagged you in to alert you with an @ symbol.

 

[domalle]

@domalle. I'm surprised at you for using the C word. Lol.
I just tagged you in to alert you with an @ symbol.

@Anyfoot, you mean like that?

 

[Anyfoot]

@Anyfoot, you mean like that?

Correct.