Reverse Pyramiding in baby RF?

[StudentoftheReptile]

How common is it for baby redfoots to have reverse pyramiding? And what exactly causes it?

Maybe I'm just being a little paranoid, but little Toby's shell doesn't look quite right. The link below is to some photos about a month ago.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-More-pics-of-little-Toby#axzz1kI6aTJFt

I'll post some more pics from this morning here a few minutes. Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Diet: I currently implement Tortoise Library's "50/50 Diet Plan" of half commercial food and half fresh produce. Every 2 days he gets mushed Mazuri (and occasionally some other brand tortoise pellets), and every day between then, he gets spring mix (or other greens), squash, zucchini, strawberries, and/or whatever else was on sale that week.

He gets a warm bath every 2-3 days. I currently do not know what the humidity is (I know, I need a hygrometer of some sort). I mist him at least 2x daily.

CHE provides a basking spot of about 100'F. This is on 24/7. The coolest ends of the tub are 72-74'F. UV lighting is provided by a 5.0 Repti-Glo tube florescent bulb on for 12 hrs daily.

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These were taken this morning.

 

[pdrobber]

I believe I have read that it's caused by the previous growth not being in the most thriving conditions. Humidity (if it is indeed what visibly and largely determines pyramiding) seems to have been at the proper level to not cause pyramiding, but maybe the tortoise didn't have access to a lot of or a wide variety of foods? The newer growth seems raised compared to the sunken appearance of the middle of the scutes because it is more...ummm robust, thriving? (not sure if those are the right words)

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

Okay...I had some trouble back when I first acquired him back in Sept. You think maybe this is nothing symptomatic of a current condition, and just evidence of past issues?

 

[heyprettyrave]

My largest tortoise has this bec when she was younger i didnt have stable humidity

 

[Kristina]

The term "reverse pyramiding" typically refers to species such as Redfoots, Yellowfoots, Hingebacks, and Manouria. Reverse pyramiding results from the tortoise being kept too dry. In tortoises such as Sulcatas, Greeks, Desert tortoises and other "grassland" species, being kept too dry results in pyramiding, or the scutes growing in a stacked "pyramid" shape.

In "forest" tortoises, being kept too dry results in the scutes shrinking downward. Because the tortoise is deyhdrated, the scutes almost shrivel downward, loosing the plump, rounded appearance. If the dehydration is chronic, the shell continues to grow this way. If the humidity is corrected, the hardened scutes will remain sunken in, but the new growth will often be above the old growth... Giving the appearance of upside down pyramids.

Here is a picture of one of my Home's Hingebacks with reverse pyramiding. Let me also point out that when a tortoise is very young, by increasing the humidity and internal hydration this can be corrected. I purchased this male as a long term captive adult, and the damage done by his previous owner is permanent. He was kept running free in a bedroom with no humidity control. His reverse pyramiding is so severe that his scutes are sunken my more than a 1/4 of an inch.

See how the marginal scutes have an almost "scooped out" appearance? That is reverse pyramiding.

When a tortoise grows, new scute material is laid down both under and in between existing scute material. This can cause gapping or ridging at the growth line. In the wild, the rings in a tortoise's shell show "seasons" in a way, or periods of hot/dry/slow growth and periods of wet/faster growth. These slight ridges and lines are perfectly normal. As tortoises age, they tend to wear them somewhat smooth, especially wild tortoises or tortoises raised outside.

 

[pdrobber]

I thought not having proper hydration/humidity caused regular upward pyramiding in redfoots...guess I learned something! So it goes either way? How is it determined whether its going to be "reverse" or "normal" pyramiding for a redfoot?

Nevermind! looked through past threads and read some info posted by Kristina that said

Oddly enough, some species that require more humid environments such as Yellowfoots, Redfoots, Home's and Serrated Hingebacks, and Manouria, will show REVERSE PYRAMIDING AS YOUNGSTERS. The scutes will actually be sunken in. As they age however, the bones begin to deform in the typical pyramided shape.

Read more: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Pyramiding--33115#ixzz1kJ9FKzip

 

[Momof4]

I'm not that educated on reverse pyramiding but I don't see anything wrong with Toby. He looks very young and I think over time his scutes will change and fill out. My red foot is 1yr and his shell is the same as Toby's. I don't think there's anything to worry about if your humidity is good and your keeping him hydrated and feeding him a proper diet. Hopefully someone with RF will chime in to ease your mind.