Sad news

[Jami]

Hi, Jami- I'm not sure which part of the country you live in, but Red Foots NEED high humidity, which can be a challenge.
One of the things that helped me decide on which type of tort to get was reading a lot on the forum, but ALSO having personal message conversations with people who kept the kinds of tortoises I was interested in. If they live in your same state or one very similar to yours, they can share tips on how they manage their torts.

Hi again. I know that red foots need the humidity but I think I can get it right. I picked Hermanns because of their personalities and size and hardiness (not mine though . But the more research I did the more it said hermanns have to hibernate. Do they really? I'd like to stick with grassland tortoises, as that's what I've researched most. But hibernating them sounds difficult and worrisome. I was happy with my choice at the time, and I loved him every day of the month and 4 days I had him. Maybe I'm scared to think about hermanns again because of what happened. It's still too new not having him anymore so I'm just researching it all again. I was so concentrated on that baby - because he was sick- that I'm at a loss right now. Thank goodness I have my dogs & cats! Thanks again!!!!

 

[Jami]

I'm very sorry for your loss :hug

Thanks. Hug appreciated!!!

 

[dmmj]

Some people don't like this idea of mine,but I have firml y believed for awhile now, that maybe to many hatchlings in a clutch are raised to hatching. I am not pointing any fingers, and of course, there is no way to know which ones won't make it. I have often refered to it as hatchling failure syndrome, perhaps some sadly just aren't meant to make it.It is sad, but sometimes they die despite our best ( and I think you herculian) efforts.

 

[Jami]

Some people don't like this idea of mine,but I have firml y believed for awhile now, that maybe to many hatchlings in a clutch are raised to hatching. I am not pointing any fingers, and of course, there is no way to know which ones won't make it. I have often refered to it as hatchling failure syndrome, perhaps some sadly just aren't meant to make it.It is sad, but sometimes they die despite our best ( and I think you herculian) efforts.

Thank you for responding to me all the time! I appreciate it. I definitely tried hard with him... I'm not sure what I want to do or should do next. I definitely want a tortoise in our lives. I've always wanted one. Maybe I'm leaning to a tropical species now because of what happened. But I loved everything I read about Hermanns- and it was A Lot!!!! Except the hibernation piece...but I figured I had time to sort that out. HA! Maybe I should do a pet store rescue....I don't know.....thanks again.

 

[leigti]

I have heard that hibernation is only really important if you plan on breeding them. So maybe someday you could get an older Tortoise, babies are so fragile in every species. I would've been petrified to try a baby Tortoise my first time around. Heck I still am

 

[Jami]

I have heard that hibernation is only really important if you plan on breeding them. So maybe someday you could get an older Tortoise, babies are so fragile in every species. I would've been petrified to try a baby Tortoise my first time around. Heck I still am

Thanks. I'd love to have a hermanns but don't want to hibernate him. There are some older ones available so maybe in a month or so I'll be brave enough to try it agin. Thanks for the info!

 

[Flipper]

I'm pretty sure you don't "have" to hibernate Hermann's. Especially, if you bring them inside or keep them inside for the winter.

Maybe a more experienced tortoise keeper than I can clarify

 

[THBfriend]

I have heard that hibernation is only really important if you plan on breeding them. So maybe someday you could get an older Tortoise, babies are so fragile in every species. I would've been petrified to try a baby Tortoise my first time around. Heck I still am

In my opinion, brumation is an essential part of a Hermann's tortoise's life, right from the start. All my hatchlings are allowed to brumate for 4-5 months, even if they're barely 20 grams. Haven't had any fatalities. Yes, it might seem daunting at first, but if you do it right, the "risk" that some people like to cite isn't worth mentioning. How to do it right? Start by reading all the guides you can find. It gets easier with experience. Maybe I'll make a post about my method come next winter.

I'm pretty sure you don't "have" to hibernate Hermann's. Especially, if you bring them inside or keep them inside for the winter.

Well, you don't "have" to eat healthy either...
It seems silly to me when people make an effort to model their tortoise care on nature (outdoor enclosures, proper light and heat, good diet, etc.) and then single out brumation as completely optional. Unfortunately, there's no hard proof that I know of that confirms or denies that. Brumation might be optional, or its lack might cause issues in the long run, who can say. But it is a fact that it's natural for Hermann's tortoises, helps to slow down their growth (overly fast growth can cause issues on its own), and is also pretty much the only choice for keepers who can't provide a suitable indoor enclosure for the winter (e.g. because of the number of tortoises they have).


Anyway, I'm sorry for your loss, Jami.

 

[Flipper]

In my opinion, brumation is an essential part of a Hermann's tortoise's life, right from the start. All my hatchlings are allowed to brumate for 4-5 months, even if they're barely 20 grams. Haven't had any fatalities. Yes, it might seem daunting at first, but if you do it right, the "risk" that some people like to cite isn't worth mentioning. How to do it right? Start by reading all the guides you can find. It gets easier with experience. Maybe I'll make a post about my method come next winter.


Well, you don't "have" to eat healthy either...
It seems silly to me when people make an effort to model their tortoise care on nature (outdoor enclosures, proper light and heat, good diet, etc.) and then single out brumation as completely optional. Unfortunately, there's no hard proof that I know of that confirms or denies that. Brumation might be optional, or its lack might cause issues in the long run, who can say. But it is a fact that it's natural for Hermann's tortoises, helps to slow down their growth (overly fast growth can cause issues on its own), and is also pretty much the only choice for keepers who can't provide a suitable indoor enclosure for the winter (e.g. because of the number of tortoises they have).


Anyway, I'm sorry for your loss, Jami.

Excellent input. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd really really appreciate a post/article in the colder months about this subject

I will do much research on the subject until then.

 

[leigti]

I think a informative thread on that would be great. Speaking for myself hibernation scares me and so I am extremely hesitant to do it. Especially for long periods of time. So more information on it would be great, you can't trust much most of what you see on the Internet but I Do trust the site. I think that would be a great friend to do.

 

[Flipper]

I think a informative thread on that would be great. Speaking for myself hibernation scares me and so I am extremely hesitant to do it. Especially for long periods of time. So more information on it would be great, you can't trust much most of what you see on the Internet but I Do trust the site. I think that would be a great friend to do.

I feel the same.

 

[Jami]

Hi! Thanks for all the info and feedback. I don't want to do harm, and make big mistakes. Been there, done that. So all informative posts are appreciated.

On another note, I know many people feel their torts should be in plastic or wood containers. I have read some of the debate threads on this and I know the reasons for and against glass. But I'm curious about the plastic. We hear so much about the "dangers" of heating up plastic and it makes me wonder about tort enclosures. With the amount of heat most need, does it not heat up the plastic too much? And wood will rot, and hold germs, mold, whatever. I understand you can seal it though.

I saw a video from big apple pet supply on their cage that looks a lot like a Guiana pig cage and seemed pretty cool. I was using glass and seemed to help keep the humidity up for HermIt. I don't think I'll be trying a hatchling - and maybe not any tort - but for a Mediterranean tort, I think the Guiana pig cage one looks very cool. Big, lots of heavy gauge metal screening, etc. just wondering your thoughts...plastic for the bottom but not too high up.

Thanks for all the responses!

 

[Moozillion]

As you can see there is lots of controversy on "hibernating" tortoises. I have had Elsa a year and a half, which includes 2 winters (I got her in November 2012). I did not "hibernate" her either time. She seems ok, but I am DEFINITELY a newbie, since she's my first tortoise. I may regret not hibernating her, but only time will tell! We each make our own decisions after lots of research and conversations!!!

 

[Moozillion]

For Elsa's indoor enclosure I use a wooden enclosure that my hubby and I made. I have a couple of sheets of plexiglass over most of the top and several live plants. I couldn't keep her humidity up without a lid of some sort. I was amazed at how much live plants help keep the humidity up! I use terra cotta plant saucers for her water dishes and I feed her on a slate tile to help keep her beak and toenails from over growing.

We live in south Louisiana which is hot and humid with lots of rain. So once the nighttime temperatures stay above 60*F, she lives in her outdoor enclosure 24/7, and I don't have to do anything to keep her humidity up! One of the reasons I got a Hermann's is that they do well in our climate without much help from me, other than protection!

There's lots of ways to raise healthy tortoises!

 

[Moozillion]

Lots of people use plastic Rubbermaid tubs or totes. I don't think many enclosure get much over 85* F, although basking spots can be upwards of 95*, at least for Hermann's.

With the wooden enclosures, you can paint and caulk them to make them pretty waterproof. That's what we did for Elsa's enclosure. It worked pretty well, but I must have not caulked well enough (or the wood shrank) because we have 1 area that leaks when I hydrate her enclosure (Oops!!!) Some people use other water sealants- if you cruise on over to the "Enclosure" section of the Forum, you can find lots of different approaches that people use!

 

[Jami]

Lots of people use plastic Rubbermaid tubs or totes. I don't think many enclosure get much over 85* F, although basking spots can be upwards of 95*, at least for Hermann's.

With the wooden enclosures, you can paint and caulk them to make them pretty waterproof. That's what we did for Elsa's enclosure. It worked pretty well, but I must have not caulked well enough (or the wood shrank) because we have 1 area that leaks when I hydrate her enclosure (Oops!!!) Some people use other water sealants- if you cruise on over to the "Enclosure" section of the Forum, you can find lots of different approaches that people use!

Hi! Thanks for all the responses. What humidity level do you try to keep for Elsa inside? If I was going to get another torty I'd get an older one that is 4 inches, and a male, so I think he'd be almost full grown - maybe - I've read various things about how big they can really get. Your enclosures sound great, and I'm glad to know someone who doesn't hibernate their tort. I chose Hermann's for many reasons so that's what I'll stick with I think. Though I'd also be ok with a russian chain-store "rescue" I think. We'll see. Still missing HermIt in a big way....thanks!

 

[Moozillion]

I keep the humidity of her indoor enclosure between 55-75%. Sometimes it goes a little higher or a little lower but not for long.

 

[lendube]

I'm so sorry. I'm quickly seeing (new owner) how attached a person can become. They're special creatures. Thanks for caring for and about him.