Scheduling an appointment

[ZenHerper]

Here are a couple of short video clips of what he’s been doing the last couple days. He does yawn occasionally but this lip smacking, for lack of a better term, is what he does.

The profile photo in your OP looks very dehydrated. Even if he is drinking: with no food mass in his digestive organs, that water will be evaporating and metabolizing away faster than he is replacing it by mouth.

The videos are concerning. Animals that cannot breath gasp. Pneumonia will take him out quickly (you won't see bubbles, since the lungs are sort of filled with gunky cottage cheese). A medical team that has VAST experience with reptiles is your best bet. Do what you can to find the best-qualified help in your area, soonest that you can arrange it.

Consider keeping his nighttime temps no lower than 80F, since herp immune function declines with decreasing temps.

You are correct in thinking an animal that *should* be active every day *should* eat every day. Animals with refined senses of smell can stop eating when they cannot detect odors they associate with food. You may need to be taught to tube feed while diagnosis and initial treatment are on-going.

 

[Sa Ga]

I’m not overly concerned about dehydration. He has been drinking when soaked. He had been eating normally up until the last couple weeks and his pooping and urates have been normal up until just the last few days which is why I will be getting him into the vet at the end of the week.

Good--i sure wish Morla would drink on her own! Just remember, sips aren't enough (Morla does do that) and dehydration can cause damage or even kill very quickly.

So what should I do? Just cross my fingers and hope he doesn’t die? Even with the other “symptoms” you don’t think I should consult a vet? There are a few exotic vets in my area and my concern is that he may have a RI

I disagree with Tom. There ARE good vets out there. You just have to FIND one. If I'd just waited, Morla would be dead now. The vet i see is very knowledgeable and saved her life at that point and is actively monitoring her for the progression of CKD.

See if there are other tort owners or a Herp society in your area (Google it). They can recommend someone who knows what they are doing. Even if they can't FIX what's bothering him, they can help u make him more comfortable by teaching you how to provide supportive care (cuz things like dehydration can pop up suddenly and kill within mere days). They can teach you how/provide you with special food so if he continues to not eat and gets too weak, you can start alternative feeding.

To me, anyway, getting bad help sucks. But so does giving up and not trying to get GOOD help. It IS out there, even if you may have to drive a little to get there. It's SO worth it.

And besides potentially saving his life or slowing the progression of something you can't completely fix (like Morla's CKD), you will have peace of mind knowing you've done everything you could have.

They really deserve no less ?

Please keep us posted and let us know if you're hitting a brick wall finding a really good, known tortie vet.

 

[Sa Ga]

Here are a couple of short video clips of what he’s been doing the last couple days. He does yawn occasionally but this lip smacking, for lack of a better term, is what he does.

Oh that just breaks my heart (I finally got them the play for me). Please get him to a good vet asap. Keep his temps high (and yes, humidity IS important for Russies! But make sure it's NOT WET or cold/damp).

Please keep us posted--he's precious!
❤❤❤❤

 

[LoutheRussian]

The profile photo in your OP looks very dehydrated. Even if he is drinking: with no food mass in his digestive organs, that water will be evaporating and metabolizing away faster than he is replacing it by mouth.

The videos are concerning. Animals that cannot breath gasp. Pneumonia will take him out quickly (you won't see bubbles, since the lungs are sort of filled with gunky cottage cheese). A medical team that has VAST experience with reptiles is your best bet. Do what you can to find the best-qualified help in your area, soonest that you can arrange it.

Consider keeping his nighttime temps no lower than 80F, since herp immune function declines with decreasing temps.

You are correct in thinking an animal that *should* be active every day *should* eat every day. Animals with refined senses of smell can stop eating when they cannot detect odors they associate with food. You may need to be taught to tube feed while diagnosis and initial treatment are on-going.

The photo in my profile picture is a tortoise I had years ago in Texas and he is completely stretched out. I know he wasn’t dehydrated but that’s besides the point since I don’t have that Russian anymore. The videos I posted may not be a good representation of what I’m dealing with. I’ve seen tortoises that are gasping for air and in my opinionthat wasn’t what he was doing. It was more like after you yawn and smack your lips. Maybe I’m wrong and I don’t mean to sound argumentative. I agree that a vet might need to be seen. Two problems though are 1. I have been researching the “exotic” vets in my area and two of the three do not seem like they have the proper ability to provide the quality of care is like. The third one the exotics vet was out on vacation. She at least has one reptile for a pet so maybe she is the best bet and 2. I’m not made of money $75 just for her to look at him then god knows how much for all the tests plus meds plus follow ups. If the bill sounds like it’s gonna get retarded I won’t be doing all the tests. I’m going to call back there tomorrow and see if she’s back

 

[LoutheRussian]

Good--i sure wish Morla would drink on her own! Just remember, sips aren't enough (Morla does do that) and dehydration can cause damage or even kill very quickly.


I disagree with Tom. There ARE good vets out there. You just have to FIND one. If I'd just waited, Morla would be dead now. The vet i see is very knowledgeable and saved her life at that point and is actively monitoring her for the progression of CKD.

See if there are other tort owners or a Herp society in your area (Google it). They can recommend someone who knows what they are doing. Even if they can't FIX what's bothering him, they can help u make him more comfortable by teaching you how to provide supportive care (cuz things like dehydration can pop up suddenly and kill within mere days). They can teach you how/provide you with special food so if he continues to not eat and gets too weak, you can start alternative feeding.

To me, anyway, getting bad help sucks. But so does giving up and not trying to get GOOD help. It IS out there, even if you may have to drive a little to get there. It's SO worth it.

And besides potentially saving his life or slowing the progression of something you can't completely fix (like Morla's CKD), you will have peace of mind knowing you've done everything you could have.

They really deserve no less ?

Please keep us posted and let us know if you're hitting a brick wall finding a really good, known tortie vet.

He has been much more active the last couple of days. Wandering his enclosure more and today when I turned the lights on and he saw his food he marched over and sniffed it. I got excited thinking he’d eat but he didn’t and I had to leave for work. When I got home tonight his food pile was smaller but I can’t tell if he ate some or just dragged it around his enclosure by walking through it because I found a few pieces scattered around.

 

[LoutheRussian]

HE ATE! HE ATE! It wasn’t very much and I kind of had to...encourage... him to take the first crew bites but then he ate some on his own accord. It was only a little bit of cucumber but I figured it would be a good choice to get some more fluids into him as well as get something into his stomach. I’m really happy that he got some food into him.

 

[willee638]

It’s now been two weeks since I’ve been able to get my little dude to eat anything. Over the last few days I’ve started giving him a carrot and pedialyte soaks hoping that would stimulate his appetite but it hasn’t. He pretty much only sleeps all day everyday and doesn’t have much energy. He’s been rubbing his eyes and every so often I can hear a click in his breathing. I’m afraid he’s in the beginning stages of a Respiratory infection. The only bit of good news is that after his med soak tonight he has a lot more energy. He’s been up and wandering around for a while appearing to be curious of things oh and he pooped the tiniest little poop which is the first poop in a few days since he can’t have much left in the tank. I had hoped his energy tonight would lead to him eating something but sadly no. I’ll be scheduling a vet visit for the end of the week. Hopefully they will be able to get him some antibiotics if need be and get him eating again.

View attachment 286928View attachment 286929

So sad, the little guy looks exhausted. Not eating for many of us is enough of a worry, but you tortoise has the symptoms of something beyond your remedies..

 

[Yvonne G]

HE ATE! HE ATE! It wasn’t very much and I kind of had to...encourage... him to take the first crew bites but then he ate some on his own accord. It was only a little bit of cucumber but I figured it would be a good choice to get some more fluids into him as well as get something into his stomach. I’m really happy that he got some food into him.

Just keep trying. I took in a babysitting job last autumn - a gulf coast box turtle - that didn't look in the best of shape. He hasn't eaten anything in all this time I've had him, but I kept trying. I tried all my tricks, but nothing worked. The only thing keeping him alive was the carrot baby food soaks with a tiny bit of liquid bird vitamins added to the water. Today's food offering was a bit of cut up cantaloupe with wax worms on top, and as I was walking by his enclosure later, I actually saw him eating a worm! It has to have been six months, and he finally ate on his own. I have hope for Lou, now that he's showing an interest in food once again.

 

[mark1]

b complex injection and sub q fluids ……….. been my experience those two things can make them feel good enough to eat ……….. as far as vets , I've met a few that were excellent at treating reptiles …………. if my dog vets thought treating a reptile was like treating my dogs , they wouldn't be seeing me or my dogs………

 

[Sa Ga]

The photo in my profile picture is a tortoise I had years ago in Texas and he is completely stretched out. I know he wasn’t dehydrated but that’s besides the point since I don’t have that Russian anymore. The videos I posted may not be a good representation of what I’m dealing with. I’ve seen tortoises that are gasping for air and in my opinionthat wasn’t what he was doing. It was more like after you yawn and smack your lips. Maybe I’m wrong and I don’t mean to sound argumentative. I agree that a vet might need to be seen. Two problems though are 1. I have been researching the “exotic” vets in my area and two of the three do not seem like they have the proper ability to provide the quality of care is like. The third one the exotics vet was out on vacation. She at least has one reptile for a pet so maybe she is the best bet and 2. I’m not made of money $75 just for her to look at him then god knows how much for all the tests plus meds plus follow ups. If the bill sounds like it’s gonna get retarded I won’t be doing all the tests. I’m going to call back there tomorrow and see if she’s back

I understand that vet bills can get expensive. However, having a pet means taking care of them properly. I can understand not putting an animal thru chemo or putting one down instead of doing a therapy that costs thousands upon thousands.

We had to struggle with that when our then 9 yr old dog, Tidus, decided to eat some steel wool pads. But his prognosis was too good to just consider euthanasia lightly, and it came down to if we could afford it and WOULD we be willing, in essence, to deem his life "worth it." $3000 later and an intense week of post-surgery recovery, he's still our crazy 13 yr old troublemaker!

That said.....

Vet exams for illness and basic tests, meds, and follow ups are not "retarded costs" and are basic care to be expected. They are certainly not cheap which is why you have to keep a savings set aside for these events should they happen. (Maybe put even $10-$20 aside a paycheck?)

I hope that I am just misinterpreting your post about basic care as a mere option, and if so, I apologize. However, if not, I hope you will reconsider this attitude. Your little guy is precious and his life of good health and comfort is your (hopefully treasured! ) responsibility not option of monetary convenience.

 

[ZenHerper]

The photo in my profile picture is a tortoise I had years ago in Texas and he is completely stretched out. I know he wasn’t dehydrated but that’s besides the point since I don’t have that Russian anymore. The videos I posted may not be a good representation of what I’m dealing with. I’ve seen tortoises that are gasping for air and in my opinionthat wasn’t what he was doing. It was more like after you yawn and smack your lips. Maybe I’m wrong and I don’t mean to sound argumentative. I agree that a vet might need to be seen. Two problems though are 1. I have been researching the “exotic” vets in my area and two of the three do not seem like they have the proper ability to provide the quality of care is like. The third one the exotics vet was out on vacation. She at least has one reptile for a pet so maybe she is the best bet and 2. I’m not made of money $75 just for her to look at him then god knows how much for all the tests plus meds plus follow ups. If the bill sounds like it’s gonna get retarded I won’t be doing all the tests. I’m going to call back there tomorrow and see if she’s back

OP = Original Post Yep. He looks dehydrated.

Is that scritching sound on the video him? Like he's grinding his beak? That would make me think:

1- pain; reptiles will grind their mandibles like we do when the facial muscles clench under stress...continue the warm soaks in case he has a fecal or urate impaction...I think baby food comes in kale and squash nowadays (those kids! lol) for a 50;50 treatment. If he's coping with congestion, the warm water may loosen up his sense of smell as well.
2- dislocated mandible...doesn't look it, but reptiles don't always look out-of-joint...this is not very likely if he doesn't object to you gently palpating the sides of his jaws to feel for any lack of symmetry

Nibbling is a good sign! Offer him tidbits frequently then let him rest. Keep him warm 24/7 with one spot in his enclosure always at the top end so he is optimized for immune and digestive function.

If you can get your hands on some dried hibiscus flowers...they can be re-hydrated in in hot water and will be much more fragrant than when dry (serve room temp).

Most vets are respectful that people have limits to their household budgets. Be up-front about your concerns; they can certainly take one step at a time. An x-ray can rule in/out a lot of things off the bat. Ask if the vet's office takes Care Credit...https://www.carecredit.com/

 

[Yvonne G]

(KapidoloFarms.com sells dried hibiscus flowers)

 

[jso]

Just looking at the “lip smacking”: some kind of problem in his mouth then? Fungal infection maybe?That’s either putting him off, or actually preventing him from eating?

 

[LoutheRussian]

I understand that vet bills can get expensive. However, having a pet means taking care of them properly. I can understand not putting an animal thru chemo or putting one down instead of doing a therapy that costs thousands upon thousands.

We had to struggle with that when our then 9 yr old dog, Tidus, decided to eat some steel wool pads. But his prognosis was too good to just consider euthanasia lightly, and it came down to if we could afford it and WOULD we be willing, in essence, to deem his life "worth it." $3000 later and an intense week of post-surgery recovery, he's still our crazy 13 yr old troublemaker!

That said.....

Vet exams for illness and basic tests, meds, and follow ups are not "retarded costs" and are basic care to be expected. They are certainly not cheap which is why you have to keep a savings set aside for these events should they happen. (Maybe put even $10-$20 aside a paycheck?)

I hope that I am just misinterpreting your post about basic care as a mere option, and if so, I apologize. However, if not, I hope you will reconsider this attitude. Your little guy is precious and his life of good health and comfort is your (hopefully treasured! ) responsibility not option of monetary convenience.

Obviously I am not talking about the costs of basic care and visits. A couple hundred bucks for a visit and meds is reasonable and affordable but when it’s x-rays and this test and that test and maybe one of those tests just so they might maybe be able to figure something out and suddenly the bill $500-1000 or more then I’m sorry but I can’t afford that. Maybe you have a job where you have expendable income or a second income in your household that allows you to be able to spend that kind of money. I’m a single person who lives alone. I have medical insurance, car insurance, car payment, phone bill, rent, and on and on. I can hardly afford to spend money on the things I need. I understand it is my responsibility to provide the best care I can and I do everything I can to fulfill that responsibility.

 

[LoutheRussian]

Just looking at the “lip smacking”: some kind of problem in his mouth then? Fungal infection maybe?That’s either putting him off, or actually preventing him from eating?

I noticed that his bottom beak has been split in two. I don’t know when or how that happened and I have done what I can to clean it and make sure there isn’t food getting stuck in it. Maybe you are onto something though. I’m waiting for one vet to return from vacation so I can talk to her about scheduling an appointment as the other two vets in my area that are “exotic” do not lead me to believe they have much experience with reptiles. One even has a care sheet on their website that recommends feeding fruits and says that coco coir is an inappropriate substrate and that they should be kept on reptile turf.

 

[Sa Ga]

Obviously I am not talking about the costs of basic care and visits. A couple hundred bucks for a visit and meds is reasonable and affordable but when it’s x-rays and this test and that test and maybe one of those tests just so they might maybe be able to figure something out and suddenly the bill $500-1000 or more then I’m sorry but I can’t afford that. Maybe you have a job where you have expendable income or a second income in your household that allows you to be able to spend that kind of money. I’m a single person who lives alone. I have medical insurance, car insurance, car payment, phone bill, rent, and on and on. I can hardly afford to spend money on the things I need. I understand it is my responsibility to provide the best care I can and I do everything I can to fulfill that responsibility.

Good! ❤ As said in my orig post, if I am misinterpreting, my apologies (and relief!).

(And no, I have a decent enough job, but able to drop $1000 here and there, no even hardly!! I'm single too--w/ a terrible purse habit! ?--so these bills have been an extremely rude awakening to what matters! Lol)

When my bf and I decided to save Tidus's life, that took a lot of worry, sacrifice, and credit!!! When we figured we _could_ (again with major logistic maneuvering but without endangering/devastating us financially), we just didn't feel it was right to put a price tag on his life.

Were we thrilled? No! We were rage-blackout MAD! But again, i believe VERY strongly that when u take on a pet, you owe them everything you can give. Their lives are in your hands and to the best of your ability (not always your preference or convenience), you guard their life and wellbeing. Tidus was truly a test of that belief for me!!!

I just get so sad when ppl view pet care like a mere choice. Pets aren't a car to just junk when they're starting to have problems. They aren't an accessory for entertainment to toss aside when they no longer amuse. Too many ppl treat it that way and I again apologize if I had misinterpreted "retarded costs" as meaning they were ridiculous ones you don't feel like paying.

I didn't think you were like that, for when you said that about twiddling thumbs and doing nothing (about someone suggesting not taking him to the vet), you seemed very on top of it and ready to offer any help possible--and I very much ❤ that!

Anyway, do keep us posted and our love is with u and the little guy!!!