Scheduling an appointment

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
It’s now been two weeks since I’ve been able to get my little dude to eat anything. Over the last few days I’ve started giving him a carrot and pedialyte soaks hoping that would stimulate his appetite but it hasn’t. He pretty much only sleeps all day everyday and doesn’t have much energy. He’s been rubbing his eyes and every so often I can hear a click in his breathing. I’m afraid he’s in the beginning stages of a Respiratory infection. The only bit of good news is that after his med soak tonight he has a lot more energy. He’s been up and wandering around for a while appearing to be curious of things oh and he pooped the tiniest little poop which is the first poop in a few days since he can’t have much left in the tank. I had hoped his energy tonight would lead to him eating something but sadly no. I’ll be scheduling a vet visit for the end of the week. Hopefully they will be able to get him some antibiotics if need be and get him eating again.

DE8F0FA0-C9BD-43FA-A96F-E5E41F1D7C5F.jpegimage.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
What are his four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low?
What heating and lighting equipment are you using to achieve these temps?
UV? What type?
Where did you get him?
 

Sa Ga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
653
Location (City and/or State)
MN
It’s now been two weeks since I’ve been able to get my little dude to eat anything. Over the last few days I’ve started giving him a carrot and pedialyte soaks hoping that would stimulate his appetite but it hasn’t. He pretty much only sleeps all day everyday and doesn’t have much energy. He’s been rubbing his eyes and every so often I can hear a click in his breathing. I’m afraid he’s in the beginning stages of a Respiratory infection. The only bit of good news is that after his med soak tonight he has a lot more energy. He’s been up and wandering around for a while appearing to be curious of things oh and he pooped the tiniest little poop which is the first poop in a few days since he can’t have much left in the tank. I had hoped his energy tonight would lead to him eating something but sadly no. I’ll be scheduling a vet visit for the end of the week. Hopefully they will be able to get him some antibiotics if need be and get him eating again.
Get him in asap at the very least to get him rehydrated asap. A soak simply isn't enough if he's really bad. He may even need some IV fluids. When Morla, my Russie, is dehydrated, so won't eat, move, or poop. Now that I know she has CKD and I tube hydrate her 3x daily, she eats and poops normally.

Chronic dehydration can lead to kidney injury which can lead to CKD (which is what my vet thinks happened to Morla bf I got her). CKD is progressive and eventually fatal, so always pay attn to your little guy's poo, eating, energy levels, and eyes (are they sunken in--like Morla's is flush with her head when u look down to the top of her head from directly above.
When she's well-hydrated, her eyes stick out from this viewpoint. They never truly look "sunken" straight on.
 

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
What are his four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low?
What heating and lighting equipment are you using to achieve these temps?
UV? What type?
Where did you get him?
90-95 on one end 93-97 on the other end he has a cool area of 74-78 overnight low of 65. I use heat lamps at both ends and I have a 46” UVB tube bulb that is brand new. He is an adopted tortoise from a lady who had him for a year before I took him.
 

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
Get him in asap at the very least to get him rehydrated asap. A soak simply isn't enough if he's really bad. He may even need some IV fluids. When Morla, my Russie, is dehydrated, so won't eat, move, or poop. Now that I know she has CKD and I tube hydrate her 3x daily, she eats and poops normally.

Chronic dehydration can lead to kidney injury which can lead to CKD (which is what my vet thinks happened to Morla bf I got her). CKD is progressive and eventually fatal, so always pay attn to your little guy's poo, eating, energy levels, and eyes (are they sunken in--like Morla's is flush with her head when u look down to the top of her head from directly above.
When she's well-hydrated, her eyes stick out from this viewpoint. They never truly look "sunken" straight on.
I’m not overly concerned about dehydration. He has been drinking when soaked. He had been eating normally up until the last couple weeks and his pooping and urates have been normal up until just the last few days which is why I will be getting him into the vet at the end of the week.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
90-95 on one end 93-97 on the other end he has a cool area of 74-78 overnight low of 65. I use heat lamps at both ends and I have a 46” UVB tube bulb that is brand new. He is an adopted tortoise from a lady who had him for a year before I took him.
Try to find out what that lady was feeding him. Sometimes when a tortoise switches homes they don't recognize the new owner's choice of food items as edible. Maybe she was feeding him things like iceburg lettuce, and you may need to resort to feeding that too, just to get him started eating again.
 

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
46" would be an HO T5, which is good, but those are strong. Which type do you have and what is the distance from the tortoise?
18”-20” I think. I don’t know the exact distance but it’s not less than that.
 

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
Try to find out what that lady was feeding him. Sometimes when a tortoise switches homes they don't recognize the new owner's choice of food items as edible. Maybe she was feeding him things like iceburg lettuce, and you may need to resort to feeding that too, just to get him started eating again.
@Tom you should read this too.
I asked the lady I adopted him from what she had been feeding him prior to me picking him up and this is what her response

Greens, carrots, squash and some other fruits and veggies sparingly

When I got him it took him five days before he would eat anything and when he did I had him eating mustard, turnip and collard greens as well as kale to start. He ate those veggies for a while but never would eat very much of it. Then one day he completely stopped eating all together. That was two weeks ago. He’s been getting regular soaks and over the last few days has gotten one Carrot baby food and one pedialyte soak.
 

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
After chatting a little more with the lady I adopted him from I’m coming to realize she may not know as much about Russians as she originally came across as knowing. Don’t get me wrong, she is very very knowledgeable about many creatures and insects and critters but it’s impossible to know everything about every type of animal. After telling her what’s going on she asked how often I feed him and when I told her once a day an amount about the size of his shell, she told me that he won’t eat because I feed him to often. I told her I wasn’t sure that I agreed but maybe she was right. I then told her even if that was the case he should have eaten something in the last two weeks. I know I don’t even come close to knowing all there is to know about these creatures but I do feel confident that I have a solid knowledge of general husbandry and from what I have read and been told and learned through experience offering food in the amounts and with the regularity that I do is correct. If I’m wrong please tell me.
 

Maggie3fan

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
8,046
Location (City and/or State)
PacificNorthWest
After chatting a little more with the lady I adopted him from I’m coming to realize she may not know as much about Russians as she originally came across as knowing. Don’t get me wrong, she is very very knowledgeable about many creatures and insects and critters but it’s impossible to know everything about every type of animal. After telling her what’s going on she asked how often I feed him and when I told her once a day an amount about the size of his shell, she told me that he won’t eat because I feed him to often. I told her I wasn’t sure that I agreed but maybe she was right. I then told her even if that was the case he should have eaten something in the last two weeks. I know I don’t even come close to knowing all there is to know about these creatures but I do feel confident that I have a solid knowledge of general husbandry and from what I have read and been told and learned through experience offering food in the amounts and with the regularity that I do is correct. If I’m wrong please tell me.

It is true that tortoises can go without eating daily...but they shouldn't have to. I figure in the wild they eat dead animals, poop, vermin (what is vermin anyway??? So, I figure I eat daily, I do go without eating for 2 or 3 days...but I shouldn't. So I feed all my critters daily, except for the water turtle, he eats 2 0r 4 times a day...So in the wild, they might not eat whatever is a normal diet for them daily, but they will eat something...
 

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
It is true that tortoises can go without eating daily...but they shouldn't have to. I figure in the wild they eat dead animals, poop, vermin (what is vermin anyway??? So, I figure I eat daily, I do go without eating for 2 or 3 days...but I shouldn't. So I feed all my critters daily, except for the water turtle, he eats 2 0r 4 times a day...So in the wild, they might not eat whatever is a normal diet for them daily, but they will eat something...

I completely agree with you. Sure they can go days or weeks without eating but like yo I said they shouldn’t have to.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
If I’m wrong please tell me.

You are not wrong. You've got the right idea.

Something is wrong there for sure. It could be that he's still in hibernation mode and hasn't snapped out of it yet. Even with warm temps and bright lights, they still know its winter.

If this was originally a wild caught animal as most Russians are, it could be succumbing to some disease that has been lingering for years. The stress of moving could have hampered the immune system enough to allow it to gain traction. If this is the case, good conditions, hydration, and time will hopefully help the tortoise fight it off again.

In any case, there is nothing a vet can do, and they are likely to do harm. Most vets just don't know jack about torts and their handbooks tell them to inject vitamins or Baytril, both of which are bad news.
 

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
You are not wrong. You've got the right idea.

Something is wrong there for sure. It could be that he's still in hibernation mode and hasn't snapped out of it yet. Even with warm temps and bright lights, they still know its winter.

If this was originally a wild caught animal as most Russians are, it could be succumbing to some disease that has been lingering for years. The stress of moving could have hampered the immune system enough to allow it to gain traction. If this is the case, good conditions, hydration, and time will hopefully help the tortoise fight it off again.

In any case, there is nothing a vet can do, and they are likely to do harm. Most vets just don't know jack about torts and their handbooks tell them to inject vitamins or Baytril, both of which are bad news.
So what should I do? Just cross my fingers and hope he doesn’t die? Even with the other “symptoms” you don’t think I should consult a vet? There are a few exotic vets in my area and my concern is that he may have a RI
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
So what should I do? Just cross my fingers and hope he doesn’t die? Even with the other “symptoms” you don’t think I should consult a vet? There are a few exotic vets in my area and my concern is that he may have a RI
Yes. Provide the best care you can and hope for the best.

Is there discharge form the nares? Frequent yawning? Squeaking or popping noises?

The issue with vets is that even if they diagnose the symptoms, they seldom address or even have an inkling about the CAUSE of the symptoms. Then they read their handbook or vet website in the back room, come back into the room and proclaim the tortoise needs a vitamin injection, and then hand you a big bill.

With this sort of mystery illness, diagnosis can be difficult or impossible without necropsy of a deceased animal. Some of them just don't seem to adapt to their new lives in captivity and for a wide range of reasons. When I say "new", they could be years into it. A few years is nothing to an animal that lives many decades. This tortoise may still be fretting about being removed from its territory so many years ago.
 

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
Yes. Provide the best care you can and hope for the best.

Is there discharge form the nares? Frequent yawning? Squeaking or popping noises?

The issue with vets is that even if they diagnose the symptoms, they seldom address or even have an inkling about the CAUSE of the symptoms. Then they read their handbook or vet website in the back room, come back into the room and proclaim the tortoise needs a vitamin injection, and then hand you a big bill.

With this sort of mystery illness, diagnosis can be difficult or impossible without necropsy of a deceased animal. Some of them just don't seem to adapt to their new lives in captivity and for a wide range of reasons. When I say "new", they could be years into it. A few years is nothing to an animal that lives many decades. This tortoise may still be fretting about being removed from its territory so many years ago.

Interesting, I knew from everything I’ve learned from this forum that vets are not as equipped to diagnose and treat these animals as one would think they are which is why I always come to the forum before I do anything. To answer your questions no there is no discharge or bubbles from the nares. I have seen him yawn a few times but I think that was more because it was morning or I had just woke him up. No squeaking but I do hear a very faint click when he breaths but I don’t hear it all the time. He has been rubbing his eyes a lot though. I thought maybe that was due to his enclosure being to dry so I’ve started making sure I add more moisture to his substrate that I was but I don’t want to soak it either. From what I’ve been told he was a classroom tortoise that was relinquished to the woman I adopted him from about a year before I got him. The lady I got him from told me he is 16 but who knows if that’s correct or if that’s just something she decided sounded good. I didn’t realize she had been feeding him carrots and fruits which could be why he went off food after eating what I gave him for a little while. I trust the judgment of members such as yourself and Yvonne as well as others who have helped me through the years I’ve had several Russians. I want to provide the best care I can for him and I’ve never had one that flat out wouldn’t eat anything. Well there was the time I fed one of them some prickly pear and he decided that was so good he didn’t want anything else. It was a tough nest two week standoff but I won.
 

LoutheRussian

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Location (City and/or State)
Cornelius Or
Here are a couple of short video clips of what he’s been doing the last couple days. He does yawn occasionally but this lip smacking, for lack of a better term, is what he does.


 

Maggie3fan

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
8,046
Location (City and/or State)
PacificNorthWest
Yes. Provide the best care you can and hope for the best.

Is there discharge form the nares? Frequent yawning? Squeaking or popping noises?

The issue with vets is that even if they diagnose the symptoms, they seldom address or even have an inkling about the CAUSE of the symptoms. Then they read their handbook or vet website in the back room, come back into the room and proclaim the tortoise needs a vitamin injection, and then hand you a big bill.

With this sort of mystery illness, diagnosis can be difficult or impossible without necropsy of a deceased animal. Some of them just don't seem to adapt to their new lives in captivity and for a wide range of reasons. When I say "new", they could be years into it. A few years is nothing to an animal that lives many decades. This tortoise may still be fretting about being removed from its territory so many years ago.

Also, that vitamin injection might could cause the skin to slough off at the injection site...bad news...
 

JMM

Active Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
133
Location (City and/or State)
Worcester, MA
You should definitely see a vet. A good exotics vet, preferably with reptile (tortoise) experience, can do radiographs, possibly ultrasound and if it is a respiratory infection, cultures--i.e. they are your best chance at figuring out what is wrong. They should be able to discuss with you, the treatment options and address any concerns you might have. Since you have exotic vets in the area, find out what their training and experience with reptiles, specifically tortoises, is--you ideally want someone with specialized training (best would be board certification in exotics) and who sees tortoises fairly regularly. Feel free to private message me if you have further questions.
 
Top