Scooters X Ray

[EppsDynasty]

Scooter is a 25+ year old Sulcata male we received 2 months ago, he was constipated from day one and groaning. We have gotten past the constipation ... 1 month of Corn Husk ... but still have groaning. We had some x rays taken to get the first step over with before and sent them over to Dr. Boyer in San Diego. It's either Dr Boyer or Dr. Molnar for all our torts now. We will not risk any of them to incompetence and in our minds these are the best 2 we got in CA. I really wanted to tag @zovick and @Tom and @Yvonne G ..... ya know, for a well rounded professional opinion from 3 legendary professionals. As soon as we get the word back from the on call vet I will post here

 

[zovick]

Scooter is a 25+ year old Sulcata male we received 2 months ago, he was constipated from day one and groaning. We have gotten past the constipation ... 1 month of Corn Husk ... but still have groaning. We had some x rays taken to get the first step over with before and sent them over to Dr. Boyer in San Diego. It's either Dr Boyer or Dr. Molnar for all our torts now. We will not risk any of them to incompetence and in our minds these are the best 2 we got in CA. I really wanted to tag @zovick and @Tom and @Yvonne G ..... ya know, for a well rounded professional opinion from 3 legendary professionals. As soon as we get the word back from the on call vet I will post hereView attachment 392990

I am sorry, but I have no expertise in reading tortoise radiographs. It will be interesting to see if the vets you mentioned are able to diagnose any problems from these pictures.

Good luck!

 

[EppsDynasty]

I'm still happy to have gotten your opinion .... you were our first thought. We will definitely let you know.

 

[Tom]

Scooter is a 25+ year old Sulcata male we received 2 months ago, he was constipated from day one and groaning. We have gotten past the constipation ... 1 month of Corn Husk ... but still have groaning. We had some x rays taken to get the first step over with before and sent them over to Dr. Boyer in San Diego. It's either Dr Boyer or Dr. Molnar for all our torts now. We will not risk any of them to incompetence and in our minds these are the best 2 we got in CA. I really wanted to tag @zovick and @Tom and @Yvonne G ..... ya know, for a well rounded professional opinion from 3 legendary professionals. As soon as we get the word back from the on call vet I will post hereView attachment 392990

This is one of the things vets learn in vet school. I've looked at lots of X-rays with my vet friends, but I'm no expert. It sure looks to me like there is a lot of sand in the intestinal tract, but I would defer to someone who is actually trained to read radiographs.

I'm not sure what the egg shaped thing on the tortoise's left side is, but it appears there may be some sort of ingested foreign body there. I don't think a bladder stone would be that high up, so I'm guessing the tortoise ate something.

I've never heard of using corn husk. I've had good results using mineral oil orally and with a cannula on a 60 cc syringe through the cloaca. Vet friends showed me how to do this correctly.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Commenting to follow along on this one, poor thing, hope he feels better soon

 

[Yvonne G]

This is one of the things vets learn in vet school. I've looked at lots of X-rays with my vet friends, but I'm no expert. It sure looks to me like there is a lot of sand in the intestinal tract, but I would defer to someone who is actually trained to read radiographs.

I'm not sure what the egg shaped thing on the tortoise's left side is, but it appears there may be some sort of ingested foreign body there. I don't think a bladder stone would be that high up, so I'm guessing the tortoise ate something.

I've never heard of using corn husk. I've had good results using mineral oil orally and with a cannula on a 60 cc syringe through the cloaca. Vet friends showed me how to do this correctly.

It was my understanding the previous keepers FED corn cob.

I could give a better opinion if the radiograph wasn't filling the screen, allowing us to see the relationship of neck, arms and legs. Because with these images it looks like the corn cob is filling the body cavity, not contained inside the intestine and stomach.

 

[Tom]

It was my understanding the previous keepers FED corn cob.

Ahh. I see. He said " after one month of corn husk". I guess he meant the tortoise was pooping out corn husk for a month? I thought he meant he was using corn husk to help lear out the tortoise.

What did you mean Dana? @EppsDynasty

 

[EppsDynasty]

Scooter pooped out massive amounts of 'Corn Husk' for a month.

It sure looks to me like there is a lot of sand in the intestinal tract,

I'm not sure what the egg shaped thing on the tortoise's left side is, but it appears there may be some sort of ingested foreign body there. I don't think a bladder stone would be that high up, so I'm guessing the tortoise ate something.

This is our thoughts .... Have no idea what that egg thing is but sounds and looks like he ate something that he just cannot pass. Maybe he ate a corn cob?

 

[jaizei]

It was my understanding the previous keepers FED corn cob.

I could give a better opinion if the radiograph wasn't filling the screen, allowing us to see the relationship of neck, arms and legs. Because with these images it looks like the corn cob is filling the body cavity, not contained inside the intestine and stomach.

It does make it harder to 'navigate', but going off of the leg that is visible, I think the picture is "upside down." In that case, the object is in an area you would typically see bladder stones.

 

[Yvonne G]

It does make it harder to 'navigate', but going off of the leg that is visible, I think the picture is "upside down." In that case, the object is in an area you would typically see bladder stones.

Also, it might be that the intestines are terribly swollen.

 

[EppsDynasty]

It does make it harder to 'navigate', but going off of the leg that is visible, I think the picture is "upside down." In that case, the object is in an area you would typically see bladder stones.

You are right .... the picture is upside down, the top left corner shows a R but it is the back legs of scooter. So the image is upside down and reverse.

Also, it might be that the intestines are terribly swollen.

We're not sure about sand being in there, he is eating 90% hydrated Bermuda and 5% Mazuri and 5% vegetables/Romaine. He is pooping really well now and they are solid but soft and a great green color, urates seem to be mostly mayo consistency but there were some hard pieces yesterday at the vet when I snuck him onto the scale .....88 LBS. He does pass gas more than usual (in the other big guys) and with that and the groaning it really makes ya feel bad for him, I'm sure we can all relate. It's looking like we are going to make Molnar the official vet of Joshua Tree Reptile Haven, we just can't get any answers from Dr. Boyers office except drive down here for a visit..... It's a 500+ mile trip for us.

 

[Yvonne G]

Are you sure he's male? Could that be an egg?

 

[zovick]

Are you sure he's male? Could that be an egg?

Interesting thought! That object does look rather egg-like.

 

[wellington]

Are you sure he's male? Could that be an egg?

That's what I thought it was when I first seen it.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Interesting thought! That object does look rather egg-like.

My first thoughts too, very much egg shaped.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Well .....
The on call vet confirmed our thoughts that there is a lot of junk in there and something has to be done. Just as Tom said "looks like a bunch of sand" that is what we thought and have made Scooter a appointment with Dr. Molnar. Boyer and Molnar are both outta the country right now so it won't be until Aug. 8. We choose Molnar over Boyer's office based on the staff, Boyers staff was let's say a little on the incompetent side ... Example: When they gave us a email to send info to my wife read back the email and was told "Yes, that's it" ... well no it wasn't and not even really close so the email never made it. Then it took us a day to get the correct email and get it sent over for the Dr. Unacceptable to us and so we chose Molnar.
We are soaking him everyday now for 3 hours minimum (and he loves it, he would sit in water all day) and yesterday actually got some sand out of him (first time that's happened). We will continue to soak everyday and monitor what comes out in hopes of braking it loose soon. We still will go to the appointment for imaging and to make sure he's ok even if we do get tons of sand and junk out. We want to thank all of you for your input and we will make sure to keep up on the updates and let ya all know what's happening.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Would something like vibration therapy possibly be helpful here? I’ve seen someone do it on a sulcata with success before, it was a while ago now, can’t remember where I saw it

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Would something like vibration therapy possibly be helpful here? I’ve seen someone do it on a sulcata with success before, it was a while ago now, can’t remember where I saw it

@jaizei can probably find the thread.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Would something like vibration therapy possibly be helpful here? I’ve seen someone do it on a sulcata with success before, it was a while ago now, can’t remember where I saw it

We hoped the 4 hour car ride to x rays would have helped but nope. I'm thinking a paint shaker ... LOL.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Scooter made the trip to Dr. Molnar yesterday morning and it was SOOOOO Refreshing. To have a vet understand 'what' you are saying .... to have a vet understand 'what' you are doing and why. We are very happy to have Dr. Molnar as part of Joshua Tree Reptile Haven, no we are blessed to have the expertise of someone available to our members. As I made the 3 1/2 hour drive I went through the things I wanted to highlight/point out and thought of 'what' questions he may have, trying to make the most of this great opportunity. As he asked question after question the same thing kept happening....
the answers given by me were met with astonishment. He found it SOOOOO refreshing that we Soaked (almost daily), that we fed grasses (re hydrated), that we fed a vast variety of over 75 different plant species and honestly it felt like he was just plain amazed at the care we provided for our members. Me and Amanda are nobody's, we are just people who have put torts and turtles comfort and well being at the top of our priority list. When I told Dr that "he doesn't know us" but we are very aware of who he is and that we have Tortoises from quite a few of his clients, I was amazed when he said "I know who you are, quite a few people I know have talked about you." WHAT ...... ? As we spoke more and more it became very obvious to me how blessed we are to have YOU.... yes you. I realized that the TFO and all of the great people here have helped put us in this place we are in our lives. Here was one of the best tort vets there is ...anywhere, and he was explaining that what we are doing is right, that what we are doing is 'How' it needs to be done for the health and comfort of these special creatures. How we are where we are is because of one thing ..... The TFO. Without all of you there would not be us.
It was becoming very clear that what was wrong with Scooter was the years of being allowed to live in a hole, cold without enough sun and an incorrect diet was not allowing his system to function properly. The years of not doing the little things has gotten him to this point of being miserable. The mentality shared by so many tort keepers of "well he's been living like this for 20 years and he's still here" has only caused scooter to suffer in silence for no telling how long. I am also 100% positive that there are many torts that suffer this same way and die without ever getting the opportunity to live the life a tort should. So many think that because their tort is alive they are doing it right, we hear all the time "well I've been doing ______ for 20 years and he's ok" ..... No he or she is not, you have been torturing your animal for decades and just because they have the ability to live through hell doesn't mean they aren't suffering. Scooter was groaning like this when we picked him up in Southern CA, how long has he been suffering? 1 year ... 2 ....10.... no telling. This story makes us want to work even harder to show how wrong most take care of their torts and turtles. It makes us want to do even more to show/share how it should be done and why.
As long as we can keep scooter pooping then Dr. will not insert a feeding tube, this would be to put lubricants directly into his stomach. As we help scooter we just rescued another male Sulcata speedy that has lived very similar and is as well groaning in discomfort. How many torts suffer like this and never get help? How many suffer and no one knows? We have over 70 Sulcata now and have dozens that are dealing with these same issues. This has shown us that a vast majority of tort owners are just plain torturing their torts until they die and then praising themselves for providing the "such a great life."
If only they knew ...... This has become one of our biggest priorities now, stop torts from suffering because of their owners laziness to ensure what they are doing is right for their animals. Scooter is lucky to have the TFO and so are so many around the world. Truly Thank You to all of you selflessly help try to make a better world for torts and turtles.
We will keep updating this thread with his progress and hopefully it will show someone there needs to be a change.