Shell Rot or Dead Keratin?

[Sonja215]

Hello to everyone! Without getting too deep into the conversation of temps and humidity, I recently noticed some spots on Herbie's plastron. The rest of his shell looks good to me. There is new growth coming in and he's noticeably larger then when I first got him back in February. Maybe by a few centimeters, but it's still growth.

I'm using my iPhone so I'm not sure how the pics are going to come through.

Want to give some ideas of what I'm doing for the obvious questions people will ask. My main concern is what is wrong with his shell. I mean if I can change the diet or the temps are all wrong by all means please tell me. Thank you all in advance for you assistance and guidance!

Temps:
Hide: low 80s
Basking spot: roughly 105ish

Lights:
100w CHE
100w Basking red light
5.0 UVB light that is a coil and YES I know I need to change it. Had the loop one and it broke. Then found out its still no different from the coil, just as bad. No real understanding of the tube lighting. Different thread possibly.

Humidity...
Try to keep it in the 70s.

Substrate:
Was against it, but recently went with Cyprus Mulch. Previously was Coco Coir, my plants just kept dying and molding. Plus the small flying bugs freaked out the BF. I did away with the plants completely.

Diet: Regularly gets
mustard greens
kale maybe twice a week
Baby Bok
Turnip Greens
Mazuri just about every day
Just bought
baby endives which Herbie chewed down on today
Escarole

Soakings:
Daily, at least 20-30 min (9 times out of 10)

Oh, also I take him outside as often as I can (30/60 min few times a week), and he eats on clovers. It's been really rainy these past few months and his 2x3 ft tub is not draining properly. Earlier this summer he was out all day in his tub when it was super hot out. His tub had some plants, & sphagnum/peat moss mix. Oh and I'm in the Hampton Roads area in VA (Norfolk/VA Beach). I showed my Vet pics and she said he is a she, it just hasn't registered in my head yet.

Think I got everything.

 

[tortadise]

Looks like new growth to me. I see no signs off any shell rot (wet or dry phase). Looking good to me. Unless I didnt see it. But you are refering to the white lines in between the scutes correct? If so thats just new growth. Hows your calcium suppliment?

 

[Sonja215]

Pics are working so here is Herbie chowing down and a pic of his enclosure. Or her enclosure.

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The two brown spots on the plastron. I give the calcium w/ vitaminD3 at least twice a week. Wow, thanks for the quick response!

 

[tortadise]

Well Ok after further review of the first two photos it does appear to have a small area on both sides of the femoral scutes (the left and right just above the tail on the plastron) Is it soft or flakey at all?

 

[Sonja215]

Doesn't seem soft and could flake if there was more of it to pic at. Which I'm not.

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Does the rest of the shell look okay? I get pyramiding, but I'm not sure if I understand what the look is.

 

[tortadise]

Yeah dont try and remove it. The only possible issue I could see is maybe being kept relatively too warm and causing dry rot. But usually dry rot appears at the end of the marginal scutes (the flares on the tortoises skirt) 105 is the hot end? and the cool end is low 80's? Cool end is ok but i would maybe drop the hot end about 10 degrees or so. Does he hide alot and drink alot? Lots of times people think shell rot is from too much moisture. Well its a bacterial infection that is accelerated in a very moist condition or very dry condition depending on the chacteristic of the infection or bacteria. usually its just very minor. I would start with cleaning the spots, change the substarte out and treat the areas with a one time scrub of some peroxide and place antiobiotic ointment on it keeping it clean and scrubbed. Also maybe try dropping the temps a little. 105 is pretty warm for that size enclosure.

P.S looks like a girl to me too.

 

[Sonja215]

Thanks a million. I was thinking 105 temp was high. SHE does drink a lot and hide. She also is very active in the early am (i.e. 3 am). I'll change the CHE to 75 and see how that does. I just changes the substrate to the cyprus mulch about a month ago. And I have been wetting it a lot, but the coco coir I kept pretty moist and it wasn't working out.

 

[tortadise]

OK there we have it. I would definitely drop the temps. low to mid 90's MAX on hot side. and be careful with wetting the substrate, those temps and wet damp soil is a perfect coctail for shell rot(bacterial infection) luckily its very mild and you caught it before it got worse. What does your hyhrdometer say in the tank? Greeks can handle 50-60% humidty just fine. They dont really need 70+. So if its at 50-60% you should be ok, and not have to spray or wet the soil.

 

[Sonja215]

I just turned off the basking light this evening so the humidity is at ... 45. If I need to get it back up I'll turn the basking red light back on. I keep reading about temperatures, you think you've got it right but you realize you don't. I usually Leave the red light on then I read about temperature drop at night. So I decided to try it off for the night.

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I soak her everyday, or at least 6 times a week. I guess I am doing too much of wetting the substrate. I can see moisture in the terrarium, but still think I need to spray it down. I'll have to slap my hand tomorrow morning. Habit.

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I'll make sure I clean out the spots on the plastron! And for ointment, is there a recommendation? Or should I just see the vet to treat?

 

[tortadise]

Well greeks really arent a tropical geographical tortoise. They are exposed to levels of humidity from coastal wind currents, and some rainy season weather. But since your girl is past the delicate hatchling size, I would actually just soak a couple times a week, and really no need to spray them a few times as well. You can use chlorahexadine (hibiclense) from walgreens to scrub it at first, and then just use peroxide, then an anti fungal cream for the last step. But use the chlorahexadine sparingly only about every 3 weeks. Keeping it clean and dry is the main goal. I by all means never turn down veterinarian assistance. Its just sometimes they give overkill shots and antibiotics for things that CAN sometimes be treated if caught early on like this scenario. Its your ultimate decision. If it seems to get worse or doesnt improve then I would seek a DVM that is savvy with exotics and especially tortoises.

 

[Sonja215]

Thanks, I actually have ... Hibaclense handy. Dogs. I'll reduce the soakings and see how it all goes. Thanks for taking the time with this discussion. I'll check with the Vet if I don't see a difference in a week or two. Unless its looking worse then I'll go to the Vet.

 

[tortadise]

No problem. Hope everything works out.

 

[colatoise]

Strange. Mine has the same thing in the same place.

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I have to agree with the rest. I do pretty much exactly what you do and have about the same results. Being down in south Carolina we had many days close to 110. Going to try and keep my basking temps a little lower myself. Thanks guys!