Sorting out advice from the vet

[DBendit]

As I mentioned in the Welcome forum, I'm the happy new caretaker for an adult Russian tortoise. The vet is mostly certain that he's male (which was my guess, based on the tail length) and that he's 3-6 years old.

Now, based on the results of the fecal test (and confirmed by visual examination of what he excreted during the exam [eww]), he's got a very high load of pinworms. I've already started him on the dewormer (fenbendazole), and if we're lucky, he'll be all cleaned out after this first run of the treatment.

There were a few recommendations that the vet made that don't match some of what I've been reading here from members of this forum, and I wanted to get your opinion before I follow them blindly:

• Since Comrade's got pinworms, in order to keep him from re-infecting himself, I should remove all the substrate, clean the enclosure (a 50gal rubbermade tub) with 10% bleach, and then bed him with nothing more than paper towel. I'd like to avoid getting rid of all this substrate (5 blocks of coir plus 2 bags of cyprus bark) after just one week, but I could be convinced that it's a good idea. What I don't like is the paper towel bedding. He loves to dig and bury himself in the substrate, and I'm not sure how to maintain the proper humidity with just paper towel.
• The night temps in the enclosure shouldn't get below 75F at night. I've been keeping them above 60F environmentally, and he seems fine for now, and I've definitely seen others on this forum say that 60+ is fine. I added a 60W ceramic heater today, but it doesn't seem like it's making it any warmer in there, unless I leave my hand sitting in front of it (and the cheapo thermometer I have in there doesn't seem to register any change in temps). I'll head back tomorrow to return it and grab a 150W and a thermal switch if 60+F isn't warm enough, or I'll just return it if it's fine as-is.
• Rather than the coir and cyprus layering I've got now, the vet recommended one of those felt-like liners and some hay (when he's totally de-wormed, anyway). Again, he really likes to dig (which makes sense for a Russian), and I think having to deal with being stuck in the enclosure with no way to dig would bore him to tiny tortoise tears. Assuming that recommendation is totally off, would an all-cyprus substrate provide any benefits over the coir/cyprus layers?

Now, past the questions I have about the recommendations from the vet, I have some other questions of my own that I haven't been able to find good answers for with my own searching:

• For soaks, what kind/size of vessel is recommended? The only thing I have that is tall enough that he can't escape from is a tiny tupperware thing that he barely fits into, and I think the clear sides stress him out. Any specific recommendations?
• If he defecates mid-soak, should I take him out and clean him off immediately, or just leave him in there soaking in that? (I imagine when he gets better GI health, his poop will be a little more firm and less prone to dispersing in the water, but this is more for the time being). I've been taking him out afterwards, just because I don't think any animal should have to swim in its own filth.
• What's the best way to re-hydrate substrate if it starts to dry out? Just dump some warm water in and stir it up? If you're doing layered substrates, do you remove the top layer, stir, then re-add?
• When measuring humidity/temp, is it better to get those for the air in the enclosure, or at the substrate level? I know IR thermometers will give the surface temp, but for hygrometers, should they be placed in/on the substrate, or on the enclosure wall? Also, should it be on the hot or cold side?
• If I did end up going with an all-cyprus substrate, how is that kept hydrated? One thing I like about the coir/cyprus mix is that the coir holds moisture well, and the cyprus layer seems to stop it all from evaporating overnight. Does cyprus hold water better than I'm giving it credit for?

I think those are all the burning questions I have for now. Thanks for all the help so far! If this doesn't belong in the Health forum (made sense for the vet questions, but I figured I'd throw everything in there), feel free to shuffle it somewhere else.

 

[Yvonne G]

First of all, David, your tortoise is probably older than 3 to five years. You can post a picture and we can give you a better GUESS.

vet says:

• Since Comrade's got pinworms, in order to keep him from re-infecting himself, I should remove all the substrate, clean the enclosure (a 50gal rubbermade tub) with 10% bleach, and then bed him with nothing more than paper towel.

• 
  
  Its nice of you to want to accomodate your tortoise, but the vet has given you good advice here. You can pile up some hay or something in a corner that he can burrow into temporarily.
  
  

  [*]The night temps in the enclosure shouldn't get below 75F at night.

  
  Russian tortoises are pretty cold tolerant, and usually night time room temperature is fine....unless he's a very young baby (which I don't think he is).
  
  

  [*]Rather than the coir and cyprus layering I've got now, the vet recommended one of those felt-like liners and some hay.

There is no comparison between our knowledge and the vet's when it comes to medical things, he knows best, but when it come to the actual "keeping" part of tortoise-keeping, a person who has tortoises knows much better than a vet does (unless he himself keeps tortoises). Your coir/cypress substrate is much better than indoor/outdoor carpeting and hay.

Now, past the questions I have about the recommendations from the vet, I have some other questions of my own that I haven't been able to find good answers for with my own searching:

• For soaks, what kind/size of vessel is recommended? The only thing I have that is tall enough that he can't escape from is a tiny tupperware thing that he barely fits into, and I think the clear sides stress him out. Any specific recommendations?

• 
  
  Just go to Home Depot or Lowe's and buy a cheap plastic dish pan.
  
  

  [*]If he defecates mid-soak, should I take him out and clean him off immediately, or just leave him in there soaking in that?

  
  I usually dump dirty water and start again.
  
  

  [*]What's the best way to re-hydrate substrate if it starts to dry out? Just dump some warm water in and stir it up? If you're doing layered substrates, do you remove the top layer, stir, then re-add?

  
  I don't layer, I just use cypress mulch, and I use the dump-a-pitcherfull-of-water-and-mix-it-with-my-hand method.
  
  

  [*]When measuring humidity/temp, is it better to get those for the air in the enclosure, or at the substrate level? I know IR thermometers will give the surface temp, but for hygrometers, should they be placed in/on the substrate, or on the enclosure wall? Also, should it be on the hot or cold side?

  
  I don't worry about the measurement with Russians.
  
  

  [*]If I did end up going with an all-cyprus substrate, how is that kept hydrated? One thing I like about the coir/cyprus mix is that the coir holds moisture well, and the cyprus layer seems to stop it all from evaporating overnight. Does cyprus hold water better than I'm giving it credit for?

Same answer for up above. And you use whatever works best for you. There is no wrong or right way.

 

[exoticsdr]

I'm totally on board with Yvonne on this...good medical advice but the members on this forum that have experince with this species are the way to go....I wish I could know everthing about the husbandry needs of every species...but it ain't gonna happen in this lifetime.
Doc

 

[zesty_17]

i agree with yvonne.

 

[zoogrl]

I also agree with Yvonne Great advice & kudos to you for double checking to be sure the kiddo is getting what he needs.