SOS…I am devastated and need experienced tortoise owner advise

[cmtortoise]

Hi,
Yesterday my Sri Lankan hatchling passed away and I have been so depressed and barely could get out of bed today. I have/had a leopard hatchling, Freddie, and then the Sri Lankan hatchling, Franky. I got Freddie about 8 months ago from tortoise supply and he has always been super outgoing and adventurous, especially, for a leopard tortoise which I read tend to be shy and why not. Franky, on the other hand, has been super shy and laid back compared to my wild Freddie. I got Franky less than two months ago and am now questioning whether he was sick instead of being overly shy. The breeder sold him to me for at a discount of $450 because no one wanted him since a mice had gotten out of the snakes cage and chewed a small piece of the front of his shell. The breeder promised that Franky was healthy and active, despite the minor defect.

I moved to a new place last week but it was only 8 minutes away from my old place and I made sure to move the tortoises last and they stayed in their enclosures the whole time so I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Two days ago I noticed that Franky was moving even slower and barely eating so I made an appointment with the most highly rated reptile vet I could find in the Atlanta area where I currently live. They could not see me till the next afternoon and by then it was too late. The next morning I woke up and soaked Franky in warm water which is what I found to do when researching online. Then within two hours (5 hours before his appointment) I went back to check on him. He was pooping in his cage and I waited a few minutes till he was done to do another warm water soak. I went to pick him up and he was not moving…I started crying as I knew he had passed.

I keep them each in two separate temporary tubs that are 3 foot long and 2 feet wide as they are each only about 2-2.5 inches long. I always make sure they have a cool side of 80-85 degrees, a warm side of 85-90 degrees, and a basking area of 95-100 degrees. They each have 3 hides in their enclosures, 2 of which I make sure are humid, and fresh water changed 1-2 times a day or whenever they poop in it. I feed them 6 times a week with various foods (dandelion greens, clovers, chopped timothy hay mixed with greens, green and red lettuce, kale, etc but always use tortoise table before I feed them something). I think it is safe to say that I have done everything right and used very reputable information in my research process when caring for them. Now I am worried Freddy is sick but I dont know if I am being paranoid or not. I am just so discouraged because these little guys are super important to me and I spent so much time preparing to have them and making sure I do everything right. Is it common for hatchlings that we buy from breeders to be sick or am i doing something wrong? How do I ensure that Freddy doesn’t get sick and I lose him too? Also, the two of them hardly had any contact and I never soaked, fed, or housed them together cause they arent the same species. I am so sad about the loss of Franky and cannot lose Freddy too. If anyone has any advice please help.

 

[wellington]

Did you keep the two in the same enclosure? Very bad if you did! That alone could have killed him. I see you didn't, that's good.
Do you know how the breeder raised them, with80% humidity or hot and dry?
They should be fed every day, enough they can graze on and off all day long.
I think you need to read our info on this forum and change anything that is not proper care for the tortoise you have left.

 

[SuzanneZ]

I'm sorry that happened to you. Seems those baby torts can sometimes be fragile. I lost a 3+ year old Russian female last week that I'd had less than a month. She was shipped to me with problems and just couldn't live. I have the male. They were my first tortoises.

Just go ahead and grieve. It's a sad thing. Then start over.

 

[wellington]

Get the leopard in a closed chamber if the enclosure you are using isn't. The temps and humidity can not be kept stable in an open top enclosure.
Do not use coil, mercury vapor or halogen bulbs.
Do not use a heat mat.
Feed every day
Soak every day for at least 30 minutes.
Use a tube florescent for uvb
Incandescent flood bulb for basking
Ceramic heat emitters for added day heat and night heat.
Use digital thermometer not the analog disc kind.
Leopard hatchling do not usually eat hay. Unless it's being soaked and he's actually eating it, stop using it.
Do not use any moss, only coconut coir and/or orchid/fir bark or reptibark for substrate.

I don't think you did anything wrong. I think the breeder did and sold you a tortoise that didn't get the proper start.

 

[TammyJ]

I am sorry for this sad loss. I don't think it was your fault, if everything was as you said. The breeder sounds very suspect. Feeding live mice to snakes, that's a no no. Frankie may have got an infection from being chewed on by the mouse/rat. I think you got an unhealthy tortoise.

 

[Yvonne G]

Because the death occurs a while AFTER a major event, like a dog chew or something similar, the death is not attributed to the event. But being chewed on by the mice probably had a lot to do with why you lost your baby. When something like this happens sometimes infection sets in. You would not recognise that he's suffering from infection, but that may be why he was 'shy.' Following the chew event a regimen of antibiotics is called for and should be followed to the end of the vet's instruction.

 

[cmtortoise]

Did you keep the two in the same enclosure? Very bad if you did! That alone could have killed him. I see you didn't, that's good.
Do you know how the breeder raised them, with80% humidity or hot and dry?
They should be fed every day, enough they can graze on and off all day long.
I think you need to read our info on this forum and change anything that is not proper care for the tortoise you have left.

Okay, yes they were kept separately and I usually washed my hands in between feeding, handling, and soaks, however, if they are in the same room could that contributed to it because while I tried to mitigate the cross spread of germs I can’t 100% guarantee that it was. Also, I have gotten mixed reviews about the nighttime temperature when the light is off. Some have said to allow them to have a cooling time no less than 68 degrees while others have said never let it drop below 85 degrees so I was using a ceramic bulb for awhile but then saw a video from Garden State Tortoise saying that you must allow them to cool off at night so I stopped using the bulb.
Is there an info page on the forum you recommend?
Also, I do not plan to get another baby for some time but when I do is there a good breed that you recommend which is hardier? I have the ability and plan to eventually keep them outside but was going to wait until they were at least a year old.

 

[cmtortoise]

I'm sorry that happened to you. Seems those baby torts can sometimes be fragile. I lost a 3+ year old Russian female last week that I'd had less than a month. She was shipped to me with problems and just couldn't live. I have the male. They were my first tortoises.

Just go ahead and grieve. It's a sad thing. Then start over.

Im sorry to hear about your loss. It sucks especially when some a*****e says to me that “they are just tortoises.”
Anyways what are your plans next? Do you think you’ll get another tort in time?

 

[cmtortoise]

Get the leopard in a closed chamber if the enclosure you are using isn't. The temps and humidity can not be kept stable in an open top enclosure.
Do not use coil, mercury vapor or halogen bulbs.
Do not use a heat mat.
Feed every day
Soak every day for at least 30 minutes.
Use a tube florescent for uvb
Incandescent flood bulb for basking
Ceramic heat emitters for added day heat and night heat.
Use digital thermometer not the analog disc kind.
Leopard hatchling do not usually eat hay. Unless it's being soaked and he's actually eating it, stop using it.
Do not use any moss, only coconut coir and/or orchid/fir bark or reptibark for substrate.

I don't think you did anything wrong. I think the breeder did and sold you a tortoise that didn't get the proper start.

Okay the only difference I had was the conflicting advice about nighttime temp which I had just mentioned in one of my previous comments where many say that cooler nights are necessary for them to regulate their body and cool down but I never let it drop below 68 and then others recommending the nighttime ceramic bulb which I also was using until I saw a Garden State Tortoise video for the desert species saying they must have night to cool off.
Thanks for the help!

 

[wellington]

Okay the only difference I had was the conflicting advice about nighttime temp which I had just mentioned in one of my previous comments where many say that cooler nights are necessary for them to regulate their body and cool down but I never let it drop below 68 and then others recommending the nighttime ceramic bulb which I also was using until I saw a Garden State Tortoise video for the desert species saying they must have night to cool off.
Thanks for the help!

OMG, not for a leopard. Most species need temps not lower than 80.
There are a few that can do with night temps in the 60's but it's not the leopard.
Garden State does a lot of things that are no longer considered the correct care. I wouldn't follow their care recommendations. They even mix species. They also use sand that can easily cause impaction.
If you want the best, you will follow the care and info on this forum.

 

[wellington]

Okay, yes they were kept separately and I usually washed my hands in between feeding, handling, and soaks, however, if they are in the same room could that contributed to it because while I tried to mitigate the cross spread of germs I can’t 100% guarantee that it was. Also, I have gotten mixed reviews about the nighttime temperature when the light is off. Some have said to allow them to have a cooling time no less than 68 degrees while others have said never let it drop below 85 degrees so I was using a ceramic bulb for awhile but then saw a video from Garden State Tortoise saying that you must allow them to cool off at night so I stopped using the bulb.
Is there an info page on the forum you recommend?
Also, I do not plan to get another baby for some time but when I do is there a good breed that you recommend which is hardier? I have the ability and plan to eventually keep them outside but was going to wait until they were at least a year old.

Never let drop below 80 not 85.
For a leopard, Basking temp is 95-100
All over temp, 80-85
Night temps 80 not lower.

 

[mojo_1]

Okay the only difference I had was the conflicting advice about nighttime temp which I had just mentioned in one of my previous comments where many say that cooler nights are necessary for them to regulate their body and cool down but I never let it drop below 68 and then others recommending the nighttime ceramic bulb which I also was using until I saw a Garden State Tortoise video for the desert species saying they must have night to cool off.
Thanks for the help!

Hatchlings need heat and humidity to get a good start on healthy smooth shells. So 80-84 temps and mid 80's relative humidity. Higher temps in basking spot.

 

[SuzanneZ]

Im sorry to hear about your loss. It sucks especially when some a*****e says to me that “they are just tortoises.”
Anyways what are your plans next? Do you think you’ll get another tort in time?

I have the one 3-year-old. I need time to work out what works through winter. I'm in the south and don't heat my house, but it does get cold and is humid. He does have ample heat. If things work, I might get another Russian.