strange day with unwanted outcome

[ColleenT]

Coleen. I don't want to stir the pot and I would have done as you did and gone to the vet. But the vet and the surgery was a choice. And I wouldn't expect a breeder to pay for it. I would, however expect a full and prompt refund with shipping covered.

Well it sure was not ME who caused the situation. The seller sent the turtle like this. a turtle what was NOT the type i ordered. I asked the vet's office afterward how much it would cost for me, as a new patient to euthanize the turtle had i decided to do that. it would have cost me $210. SO either way, i was screwed. I sure as heck was not going to allow the turtle to suffer. i was put into this situation by the seller who either did this on purpose to get rid of an unwanted animal, or if he didn't do it on purpose, he sure as heck does not seem to pay attention to an animal he shipped out.

 

[mike taylor]

I commend you for taking care of the box turtle and not letting it die .

 

[Pearly]

I commend you for taking care of the box turtle and not letting it die .

Same here! Colleen you did what most of us, crazy, often irrational, emotion driven animal lovers would have done. Now, that it's been all said and done, you know where everybody is, including the seller. You've made some decisions (good ones in my book), the turtle is recovering and you too, need to recover from this emotional (and financial!) trauma. What goes around comes around. I think that after this most of us would think twice before buying a new animal from that business. You ended up with disabled animal of the kind you didn't want, and your wallet lighter of couple hundred $$$, but... with love and admiration of people going your way from all over this forum (good "karma" for you) , the turtle ends up LIVING, and it happens to be in a wonderful, loving home, the seller... saves couple hundred (he was not planning on spending in a first place), he doesn't have to worry about badly injured animal, nor does he fully own his original mistake (sending you the wrong kind), many people on TFO who have know him by reputation, have probably lost lots of respect for him and are likely upset about what had happened and how he handled it.... (bad "karma" for him...) remember the basic law of physics: there must be a reaction to every action. No energy just VANISES in the Universe. It rather CHANGES it's form or shape. What you had put out, was GOOD and I know for a fact that some day you will see it come back your way. So now, I hope you can put this think to rest and start healing, thought that may not be easy after all that upset and trauma, fear, heart ache for badly injured animal, perception of unfairness and injustice... This is like a mini PTSD, it will take some time and conscious effort to heal. And I hope you can do it very soon. Thinking of you and your little Boxie. You know she just may turn out to be a very special animal. You never know.❤️

 

[mike taylor]

I second what she said so well .

 

[ColleenT]

i brought Ilene's rubbermaid tub outside yesterday, it was the first day we have had with sunshine and no rain. She seemed to enjoy it.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I'm sorry colleen. This whole thing is just awful.



If I had a female 3 toed, I'd give her to you. Clearly you've proven you are a great home for a turtle.

 

[ColleenT]

Aww thank you. i have an adoption application with a rescue group, so i'm hopeful. In any case, Ilene will stay here as long as she gets along with the others.

 

[MPRC]

She really is beautiful. It sounds like she was meant to be with you, even if you had no intention of having her.

 

[ColleenT]

She really is beautiful. It sounds like she was meant to be with you, even if you had no intention of having her.

Yes, i agree, some animals find us and it's bc they needed us.

 

[Careym13]

I've been busy and am just now seeing this thread. All I can say is WOW! I cannot believe that poor animal was shipped to you like that let alone had that kind of injury and that it went unnoticed. What an awesome person you are for taking care of this turtle!

 

[Eric Phillips]

Just read ATC response to your review on the vendors review and I am a bit disappointed in the response. Not the PR move I would of chosen for my business. As a business owner myself, I would of embraced the stage so to speak. A missed opportunity.

 

[mark1]

i read this guy defend himself before , he sent a guy a dead radiated tortoise , justified not giving the guy his money back by saying it wasn't his , he was the middle man , then when the guy told him you can't ship someone elses radiated to another state on your permit , it suddenly became his ..... it was very funny ..... now he says here it had to be a four toed three toed because of the region he got a large group from ..... the guys a nothing but an animal flipper , the turtles are most likely all wild caught ......... his site would want you to believe he's a conservationist , hobbyist , stand up guy ...... a dead radiated , that is just disgusting ......shipped it ups in a box that fell apart , so ups put it in a sealed plastic bag in arizona ..............

 

[dmmj]

I was very disappointed with his response. I would have made at least a half offer on that bill

 

[JoesMum]

I was very disappointed with his response. I would have made at least a half offer on that bill

I agree. He didn't exactly cover himself in glory with that reply.

The bottom line is he shipped the wrong tort. OP did not get what she paid for.

On top of that, nobody would ship an animal that is so seriously injured - OP was quite right to get it to a vet rather than ship it straight back.

An offer of another tort at cost is hardly compensation in these circumstances.

 

[HaiHarry]

hope she will recovery soon. Anyway, sometimes it is just fate, so happy to take care of her.

 

[jaizei]

i read this guy defend himself before , he sent a guy a dead radiated tortoise , justified not giving the guy his money back by saying it wasn't his , he was the middle man , then when the guy told him you can't ship someone elses radiated to another state on your permit , it suddenly became his ..... it was very funny ..... now he says here it had to be a four toed three toed because of the region he got a large group from ..... the guys a nothing but an animal flipper , the turtles are most likely all wild caught ......... his site would want you to believe he's a conservationist , hobbyist , stand up guy ...... a dead radiated , that is just disgusting ......shipped it ups in a box that fell apart , so ups put it in a sealed plastic bag in arizona ..............

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391966


This is also the reason I would be extremely hesitant to do any business with him, if i did at all. Completely ignoring the DOA and possible division of responsibility debate (whether buyer bore any of it), that he offered for sale an animal that wasn't his unbeknownst to the buyer is enough for me to not trust him.

 

[ColleenT]

thanks everyone i appreciate your support. Ilene is doing very well, she goes to see the vet again on Friday for a follow up. I did start a go fund me page for her but i am not allowed to share on this site. Some very kind people have donated and it is so much appreciated. I read thru that Fauna review and Wow. I don't know if i would have changed my mind about him if i had read that before calling him, but NOW, i hope others can see these two incidents together would make someone think twice.

 

[Az tortoise compound]

Hey everyone, this is Andrew owner at Arizona Tortoise Compound. TFO is an awesome site that I like having ATC be apart of, so I would like to share as well on this thread. I do understand everyone's comments and opinions that everyone has expressed on this thread. I do appreciate the understanding posts and I do understand myself about the negative posts.

Colleen was very polite through the whole process and is a wonderful person for taking on the Three Toed with the wound instead of euthanizing it. I do understand her being upset for spending money on the vet and she has the right to post a bad guy thread on A.T.C. as she did. As for the Tortoise Industry, companies are not able to offer to pay vet bills. Vet bills can fluctuate greatly from one vet to another. Also many vets do not know the underlining reasons for some causes, so testing, treating, then getting blood work done, then treating again can make the costs go sky high. Also if companies offered to pay vet bills, a few people would take there tortoises in for minimal reasons and accrue large tabs and try to pass on to the company or breeder. Also you will get people making fake vet bills to scam as well. For these reasons industry standards are for the tortoise or turtle to be shipped back and let the company handle the health issues. A lot of times, give an inch and a mile is taken. If I was to change A.T.C.'s policies and cover vet bills on this one, their would be people trying to use my kindness for free health examinations and all sorts of other things. So, as a person that does enjoy and care for my animals and as much as my heart goes out to the box turtle and customer, A.T.C. is not able to pay the vet expense for anyone.

I do not like making up excuses but I would like to list a few examples. A.T.C. was closed for a few weeks. I had to move my family as well as my company to new locations. One can imagine how hard it is to move a family, business and 40 different species of tortoises from one location to another plus turtle species and other reptiles. I provide large enclosures for my species and have acreage. Yes, for time to time a turtle or tortoise is able to elude us and that is how the box turtle went unseen for awhile. This is also the reason for lack of communication. I do believe if our internet was not down I could have let colleen know of the non payment of the vet before she started the process. Soaking the turtle before shipping and looking it over did not show any signs of Injury. I would never let A.T.C. ship dead/ injured animals on purpose. Things do happen from time to time. I am not perfect nor is A.T.C., nor is anyone. I do also understand with listing these reasons some people will have different opinions then I and that is fine too.

When I started A.T.C. over ten years ago, we set new standards and guarantees, it also got some others on board to change there policies. The example being the health guarantee. Most companies offer live arrival and that it. We started with a 3 day guarantee and over time increased it to a 7 day satisfaction guarantee. We now are at the point to where we are going back to live arrival only. In the beginning we also refunded and tried to cover most anything, but with time any many of many people trying to take advantage we are no longer able to offer the guarantee. Once a person flipped over a bunch of tortoises they received from us and started to take photos. They claimed they all were dead. In the sequence of photos you could see the hatchlings blinking. One photos some had eyes open then the next photos they were closed and next open again. We called them out on it and told them to never contact us again. With the 7 day satisfaction we wanted to set ourselves apart from others, but with time we have learned why others only offered live arrival and put a time line on receiving. A,T.C. is still growing and we did ---- sales last year (not profit). Most of that being live tortoises. We are shipping 5 day a week, every week. That equals many tortoises being sold. We do see almost anything you can image throughout the year. Once you say you have seen it all, then somehow something new pops up that you would never think of. Breeder tortoises is my passion and brings me joy everyday and I will continue with my high expectations of myself and business.

As for the Fauna BOI post you guys are referring to. That was my first ever bad guy post and that happened three to four years ago, I think four. If your able to read through the 100 plus pages of comments and weed through the negative jabs from my competitors, one would see I stood my ground on that case. I still feel I was in the right on that one and would do it again the same if happens again. As much as companies have responsibilities the customers have responsibilities too. I personally do not comment on BOI posts on Fauna, but I do not mind posting on TFO. I will continue to share my breeding experiences here as well as share my knowledge with others. This is why I'm okay with sharing this post, so people can understand where companies stand and what to do if something arises.Every shipment we ship, a slip of paper is included directing the customer to give their reviews on TFO and we will continue to add that slip on every shipment. Anyone that has questions or concerns are welcome to email me directly at [email protected] . Thank you, Andrew Hermes

 

[ColleenT]

it is still a gulf coast box turtle it is not a 3 toed. The remaining hind foot still has 4 toes, as did the foot that fell off. besides the fact the coloring and size are totally wrong for a three-toed box turtle. It was never a three-toed box turtle.

As for the vet bill explanation, i understand why in MOST CASES you would not pay the vet bill. but in this situation you were 100% responsible for what happened. If you knew what a three-toed box turtle was, and if you had checked the foot, I would not have had to deal with this.

 

[JoesMum]

Sometimes a goodwill gesture is made by a business without setting a precedent - it's a gesture to calm a situation and creates a good image for others.

I have no idea what the purchase price was by Colleen, but presumably the @Az tortoise compound made a profit on it and is happy to be in profit at the expense of a customer who is out of pocket because
a) She didn't get what she ordered
b) She got a vet bill to add insult to injury
And
c) Posted some pretty convincing evidence that is damaging to your business.

Well lucky you Andrew, you made a profit out of your own admitted failure to process an order correctly.

Maybe some/all of that profit could be given to Colleen as a goodwill gesture and appease some bad feeling on here and perhaps convince possible customers that you are worth dealing with after all.