Substrate Issues

TortsandTurts

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So our boy is about 15-17 pounds now. He has a large indoor enclosure that has a large hide. We have previously used several different substrates. A combination of coconut coir/peat moss caused reoccurring upper respiratory infections. No matter how much we dampened it, it was always dusty and clogged his airways. So we switched him to cypress mulch as I have seen recommended several times. He's done well as far as upper respiratory infections since removing the dusty products. Recently we noticed him in his hide more, being less interactive with us. Turns out he was having issues pooping. He's still having issues because he EATS MULCH! Little jerk. Any other recommendations? Can I put hay in as substrate if I change it regularly? Maybe it will encourage him to eat a proper diet...... these torts, I swear.
 

Maro2Bear

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Id say upload some pictures of your torts enclosure, etc. if you have a good enclosure, proper heat, humidity, lighting, etc ur sully shouldnt be eating mulch. Ive had our sully on a cypress mulch bed for a long time with no issues at all. Id say there are a few issues here other than substrate.
 

rearlpettway

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So our boy is about 15-17 pounds now. He has a large indoor enclosure that has a large hide. We have previously used several different substrates. A combination of coconut coir/peat moss caused reoccurring upper respiratory infections. No matter how much we dampened it, it was always dusty and clogged his airways. So we switched him to cypress mulch as I have seen recommended several times. He's done well as far as upper respiratory infections since removing the dusty products. Recently we noticed him in his hide more, being less interactive with us. Turns out he was having issues pooping. He's still having issues because he EATS MULCH! Little jerk. Any other recommendations? Can I put hay in as substrate if I change it regularly? Maybe it will encourage him to eat a proper diet...... these torts, I swear.
Try orchid bark.
 

TortsandTurts

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Id say upload some pictures of your torts enclosure, etc. if you have a good enclosure, proper heat, humidity, lighting, etc ur sully shouldnt be eating mulch. Ive had our sully on a cypress mulch bed for a long time with no issues at all. Id say there are a few issues here other than substrate.


There's no issues with the enclosure. It's meticulously checked for issues by multiple people, including two Sulcata owning veterinarians, and several reptile breeders. I'm looking for recommendations on substrate.

My sully has always been notorious for eating just about everything he possibly can. He's a small toddler at heart.
 

Maro2Bear

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How large of an enclosure, must be some reason he's munching on cypress mulch. Orchid bark as noted, is an option, but your enclosure is probably pretty large to put down a nice thick layer. I'm sure @Tom will have some ideas. Where are you located?

Hay or straw type substrates are not recommended for lots of reasons.
 

TortsandTurts

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The reason he's eating substrate is because he eats anything and everything. This is no real surprise to me. My enclosure is quite large - 3/4 or more of our spare room. I don't remember exact measurements currently.
 

Tom

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The reason he's eating substrate is because he eats anything and everything. This is no real surprise to me. My enclosure is quite large - 3/4 or more of our spare room. I don't remember exact measurements currently.

There is a reason why he's eating things that he shouldn't. We aren't trying to make you mad or argue, we're trying to solve the real problem, instead of going around it. Most vets, breeders, experts, books and websites, have sulcata care all wrong. The same incorrect misconceptions have been repeated for decades. I know. I was one of the repeaters until I realized something was very wrong. Most people who've been keeping them for a long time still haven't realized what is going on or why.

What do you feed him? Supplements?

How are you heating and lighting? Are you using any red or infrared bulbs?
 

TortsandTurts

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No, his enclosure is meticulous. Trust me, it's been gone over several times. He gets an orchard mix grass hay as his main staple, and is offered a mixture of several things on rotation. Cactus, dandelion, hibiscus, a rotation of commercial diets, along with minimal treats on seasonal items, he grazes outside in the warmer weather. He gets calcium supplement three to five times a week. He has had x rays and bloodwork multiple times. Everything is perfect. He has a warm enclosure - no red lights. It's completely dark at night. His lights are on twelve hour timer rotation, and exchanged every three to six months religiously depending on brand. MVB are used for his lighting, and CHE are used to keep all the various parts of the enclosure warm consistently. His "cool" end is mid eighties. His hide stay around 94 or 95 with the humditity usually around 70% in his hide. He is soaked three to five times weekly because it encourages him to poop. Food is also drenched prior to feeding (not the hay, but other items) to encourage water in take.

A lot of his mulch intake I feel is him dragging the food items around his cage before eating (he does this routinely) and then subsequently eating the mulch on it. But he's always known to pick things up in the yard, etc. if not properly supervised. (Certain family members are no longer allowed to watch him.) I've been over this with my vet and nothing can be found.
 

TortsandTurts

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I didn't take rescuing him lightly. I've been reading this forum for ages before bringing him home. He only gets the best here.
 

Tom

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I didn't take rescuing him lightly. I've been reading this forum for ages before bringing him home. He only gets the best here.

No one is questioning your intentions. If you've read this forum for a while, then you've seen some of the absurd things that people's vets have told them. One person's idea of "perfect" or "good" is often different than another's. That is why we ask.

All of your parameters sound great to me, but I see one potential issue. Too much calcium supplementation can cause a mineral imbalance, which can cause them to eat substrate and other weird things. With the excellent diet you are feeding him, you shouldn't need calcium supplementation at all, but a small amount once or twice a week shouldn't hurt anything. I think 3-5 times a week is too much even for a sulcata eating mostly grocery store foods.

A lot of people who feed grocery store greens to get through winter discover their tortoise eating rocks, twigs, bark and pebbles when it gets to go back out side in springtime. I usually recommend "MinerAll" from Sticky Tongue Farms and it usually solves the problem. I wonder if it would help in your case too?

A lot of his mulch intake I feel is him dragging the food items around his cage before eating (he does this routinely) and then subsequently eating the mulch on it.

Do you see him intentionally eating mouthfuls of substrate on purpose, or are we talking about incidental ingestion? If it is incidental, you might try using some boards to keep one corner free of substrate and feed him in a bed of hay there.
 
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