Sulcata owner, help required!

[nicola140ss]

Hi guys my name is Nicola,

I have 2 juvenile Sulcata's about 1 and a half years old named Fred and Wilma, unsure of the sex as of yet. My bf bought them online, which I know is bad, but I am glad we have them and try to do the best we can for them.

Would really love some advice and help as we are doing the best we can and taking vets advice but nothing seems to be helping them. Vet is a really good exotic vet, works at vet hospital in Scotland and does a lot of charity work for animals, was also recommended on this forum.
Background info:-
Wilma has grown much bigger than Fred and we have had constant health issues with them regarding upper respiratory infections, which we are now getting under control due to changes within our housing/substrate/humidity. We are having major problems with pinworms which seems to be affecting Fred as he is still as tiny as he was the day we got them and not weighing more than 70grams, although constantly grazing on food and being very active. Wilma is weighing 130grams but showing signs of pyramiding although she seems to be a more voracious eater. They have been wormed 3 times, but still seem to have these pinworms in their faeces. Fred recently was hospitalised at vets because he was not passing any faeces, which he passed while kept in and again containing pinworm eggs!!!! He has been de wormed again 4th time! Now has been giving ornicare (doxycycline) powder to sprinkle over food daily and he is to be reviewed next week.
We soak them 2xday and mist them regularly, looking at getting humidifier also. Temps are 35 celsius under basking light and 27-28 rest of tort table. Temps drop to about 21-22 at night, we have no heat source at night, only heat mat attached to roof of their hide to keep drafts out.

Please help, willing to try anything and make changes ASAP.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Nicola:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

Are you in the UK?

If it were me, I would separate the two tortoises...have two separate habitats. I would also keep heat on at night.

 

[Laura]

I agree. they need heat at night as well. Esp if they are sick.
Seperation would be recommended as well. Or if your habitat is big enough, make sure they have two seperate feeding places that are hidden from the other so they can eat alone and in peace.
What do you feed them?

---

as for the worms... you probably need a better worming schedule. The wormer may kill the adults and not the eggs.. then the eggs hatch and they have worms again.. Also.. they may be reinfecting themselves. The eggs come out in the poop. So you may need to do a real thourough cleaning of habitat and replace substate.

 

[Jacob]

Yes Try Separating Them, Keep Them Both Hot and Humid.
Try Soaking Them As Well As Muchh as Possiable, and Try Giving Some Food They Love.
such As Cactus. cactus Fruit, Grass, Weeds ,Muzuiri

 

[Zamric]

with pin worms, seperation is best! that way they don't keep infecting each other. Respetory issues can be related to low heat at night. Keep those babies warm 24/7 with plenty of humidity!

 

[TORTOISEMAN1]

Welcome!!

 

[ascott]

I would give them their own enclosures...not only for the pinworm issue (which by the way pinworm can be transferred to you so make sure to scrub hands before and after handling each of them or any items in their enclosure) but also to see if bullying is going on...this is also suspect to me when two torts are kept in same enclosure getting the same exposure to environment and yet there is such a huge difference in weight ...this is in my opinion and observation.

You can also try a less toxic method in decreasing the parasites by offering FOOD GRADE diatemacious earth powder sprinkled on their food....along with at least one if not better two daily warm soaks to try to get them to clear their gut load quicker...but soak in their own dishes only so as to not cross contaminate .....

Pinworms are a tricky critter to get rid of and "I" would be looking for other ways to clear them instead of the toxic poisons used in the dewormer....also with all of the workers I would be worried about clearing all of their system of the beneficial critters they may need in their system as well by the repeated poison to kill the worms....I am not saying that controlling and ridding the mass majority of parasites but am simply trying to suggest an alternative to such an invasive poison....

I wish you much success in this process...

---

Sorry..using my dumb smart phone...in my last paragraph the word "workers" should be "dewormers" my phone seemed to have liked adding its own words....

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Welcome!

 

[pdrobber]

welcome

 

[pam]

welcome

 

[nicola140ss]

Hi Nicola:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

Are you in the UK?

If it were me, I would separate the two tortoises...have two separate habitats. I would also keep heat on at night.

Yes I am in Uk,we have now got a light on at night and humidity is around 80-85 now, thank you so much for your comments

 

[nicola140ss]

I agree. they need heat at night as well. Esp if they are sick.
Seperation would be recommended as well. Or if your habitat is big enough, make sure they have two seperate feeding places that are hidden from the other so they can eat alone and in peace.
What do you feed them?

---

as for the worms... you probably need a better worming schedule. The wormer may kill the adults and not the eggs.. then the eggs hatch and they have worms again.. Also.. they may be reinfecting themselves. The eggs come out in the poop. So you may need to do a real thourough cleaning of habitat and replace substate.

---

Hi Laura, the habitat is cleaned 1 every week, hoovering the base of tort table then cleaning with disinfectant solution fortnightly, before replacing substrate, substrate is all new sphagnum moss at one side and newspaper at the other side until we are sure pinworms are gone. We are getting them de wormed again on Monday so hopefully that will sort them out. They have not been usual way since having de wormer, do you think the pro biotic things are any good and if so what would you recommend?

 

[nicola140ss]

I would give them their own enclosures...not only for the pinworm issue (which by the way pinworm can be transferred to you so make sure to scrub hands before and after handling each of them or any items in their enclosure) but also to see if bullying is going on...this is also suspect to me when two torts are kept in same enclosure getting the same exposure to environment and yet there is such a huge difference in weight ...this is in my opinion and observation.

You can also try a less toxic method in decreasing the parasites by offering FOOD GRADE diatemacious earth powder sprinkled on their food....along with at least one if not better two daily warm soaks to try to get them to clear their gut load quicker...but soak in their own dishes only so as to not cross contaminate .....

Pinworms are a tricky critter to get rid of and "I" would be looking for other ways to clear them instead of the toxic poisons used in the dewormer....also with all of the workers I would be worried about clearing all of their system of the beneficial critters they may need in their system as well by the repeated poison to kill the worms....I am not saying that controlling and ridding the mass majority of parasites but am simply trying to suggest an alternative to such an invasive poison....

I wish you much success in this process...

---

Sorry..using my dumb smart phone...in my last paragraph the word "workers" should be "dewormers" my phone seemed to have liked adding its own words....

---

Hi ascott,

We have been using alcohol gel when handling Fred and Wilma and washing hands afterwards. They are soaked separately but use the same dish which is washed with regular washing up liquid after each one has been soaked. We have been doing 2xdaily soaks this last week and spraying as much as we can.
I was worried about clearing the good bacteria etc from their systems, I suppose it's like us getting antibiotics frequently also, I will try and source this earth powder.
I'm usually in the house 2/3 days a week watching them, there doesn't seem to be any bullying, if anything I would say Fred (wee guy) occasionally tries to nip wilma's tail but they usually sleep next to each other with one resting their head on the back of the others shell. The vet seems to think that Fred may have been the 'runt' of his hatchlings and may even possibly have a virus like herpes which makes them more prone to illness.
Thanks for your comments .

 

[nicola140ss]

with pin worms, seperation is best! that way they don't keep infecting each other. Respetory issues can be related to low heat at night. Keep those babies warm 24/7 with plenty of humidity!

Thanks for comments, humidity is rising 80-85 at the moment, still working on getting it warmer. We have 50watt Exo terra bulb which is blue light, comes on when 125watt MVB basking light goes off. Do you think this is ok ?

 

[nicola140ss]

Yes Try Separating Them, Keep Them Both Hot and Humid.
Try Soaking Them As Well As Muchh as Possiable, and Try Giving Some Food They Love.
such As Cactus. cactus Fruit, Grass, Weeds ,Muzuiri

Thanks, soaking them 2xday, spraying as much as we can. Struggle to get cactus, cactus fruits here in Uk, will try sourcing online. At the moment eating endive leaves daily, with occasional salad mix/carrot/ watercress/ peppers and weeds as much as possible, not much have survived our cold winter. They love their dandelion leaves and flowers, rose petals and clover when we have some.
We sprinkle nutrabal calcium supplement daily over food, they also have cuttlefish bone in the enclosure which they go to when they need it.

 

[Zamric]

Sounds like your getting things undercontrol. now for the hard part.... WAITING!

 

[nicola140ss]

Hey guys just to let you know, Fred has been back to the vet, they are keeping him in and fitting a tube into his tummy so that he can get meds, food directly into his tummy. He said this is the last option for him, as he has only put on 10gram in weight since May2011.
Really worried about him, hope he pulls through. :-(

 

[dmmj]

Tube feeding is not always a bad thing for a tortoise, now he can get food and meds without stressing him out to much. Here is hoping he gets better, have you separated them yet?

 

[nicola140ss]

Tube feeding is not always a bad thing for a tortoise, now he can get food and meds without stressing him out to much. Here is hoping he gets better, have you separated them yet?

Nope we did not separate them as we were waiting for them to get faecal samples checked again by the vet yesterday, and fred has been kept in think he will be in all week but thankfully they are both clear of pin worms now after their 2nd dose.
When Fred comes out we will divide the tort table and keep them separate until Fred gets stronger.
We now have coco coir substrate and sphagnum moss, humidity still drops a lot through the day so trying to soak substrate frequently enough to bump it up, next step to get a humidifier I think.
Also, any tips for getting good bacteria back into their systems after dewormer and antibiotic courses?