Sulcata weeds

[randomdemon]

Ok so my baby sulcata arrived yesterday and I have to admit being victim to the general misinformation available on raising these tortoises.

So I have been out and bought all the RIGHT stuff but now I feel like I'm back to square one kinda as I was so confident on his care and the research I had done, I thought I'd spoken to the right people etc as it's been in planning for over a year.

Anyway, essentially, I'm now doubting everything I thought I knew and I know this info must be available somewhere on here but I can't seem to find it. In my garden I have a dedicated 'wild' area which I've left gras and weeds to grow for this tortoise, occasionally mowing it but otherwise it's all natural. There are dandelions galore which I know are fine and also plantain but I just want to check some other things I now can't seem to find any clarification on before I let him have any time outside.

Dock
Raspberry leaves
Nettle
Ivy
hydrangea
Red/blackcurrant leaves
Gooseberry leaves
Ash tree leaves/shoots

Thank you in advance

Kelly and Jupiter

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Hello and welcome to the forum! I am sure our sulcata experts can help you through the information available out there.

Dock: Contains high levels of oxalic acid, which used to be frowned up on. Nowdays the belief is that they are fine as a part of a varied diet if you keep your tortoise well hydrated.

Raspberry leaves: New leaf growth and flowers are fine fed sparingly. Older leaves contain tannins and other astrigent substances that some tortoises might not like the taste of.

Nettle: Safe in moderation. Some say the older leaves store irritating substances, but I don't think research has shown it to be dangerous for tortoises.

Ivy: English Ivy contains saponins and falcarinol, which is capable of causing allergic skin reactions. Boston Ivy is high in oxalates (check dock) and can cause dermatitis.

Hydrangea: high in oxalates and can cause dermatitis that is toxic and can cause gastrointestinal upset and bloody diarrhoea.

Red/blackcurrant leaves: The fresh young leaves of most Ribes species are said to contain small amounts of hydrogen cyanide and have the potential to cause serious problems if eaten in quantity. There aren't any cases of tortoises being poisoned eating the leaves though.

Gooseberry leaves: Also part of the Ribes species.

Ash tree leaves/shoots: Some sources say that the leaves and fruit of the Ash are toxic to cattle and other ruminants, and others deem it safe. There really isn't any hard evidence on their effect on tortoises.

You can check the tortoise table database for plants for your tortoise. They usually err on the side of caution and label many plants as do not feed if they have been found dangerous to other animals. : https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/

If you can't find a plant on there, I would use their list of harmful properties for tortoises and check if the plant contains any.:

Harmful Properties

Harmful Properties

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

If you haven't read them yet, here is our article for new peple on the forum:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

And a care sheet for sulcatas: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-a-sulcata-leopard-or-star-tortoise.181504/

If any questions arise, please feel feel to ask here or make a new thread!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Kelly, and Welcome!

All those listed should be fed in moderation or not at all. Maybe think about planting instead grape vines, mulberry tree, Rose of Sharon, any vegetable plant, especially squashes, Honeysuckle, viola and pansy, plantain, portulaca, chickweed, purselane

 

[ryan57]

Baby sulcata? and you're talking about exotic weeds...

Look, chop up (really fine or use a food processor) only the tips of green lettuce, raddichio, and add soaked Mazuri small tortoise LS. That will give you a year or more to entertain this semi-useless weed conversation.

Build an outdoor enclosure with grass for next year when it's nice and s/he will be eating grass and weeds outside.

 

[randomdemon]

Hello and welcome to the forum! I am sure our sulcata experts can help you through the information available out there.

Dock: Contains high levels of oxalic acid, which used to be frowned up on. Nowdays the belief is that they are fine as a part of a varied diet if you keep your tortoise well hydrated.

Raspberry leaves: New leaf growth and flowers are fine fed sparingly. Older leaves contain tannins and other astrigent substances that some tortoises might not like the taste of.

Nettle: Safe in moderation. Some say the older leaves store irritating substances, but I don't think research has shown it to be dangerous for tortoises.

Ivy: English Ivy contains saponins and falcarinol, which is capable of causing allergic skin reactions. Boston Ivy is high in oxalates (check dock) and can cause dermatitis.

Hydrangea: high in oxalates and can cause dermatitis that is toxic and can cause gastrointestinal upset and bloody diarrhoea.

Red/blackcurrant leaves: The fresh young leaves of most Ribes species are said to contain small amounts of hydrogen cyanide and have the potential to cause serious problems if eaten in quantity. There aren't any cases of tortoises being poisoned eating the leaves though.

Gooseberry leaves: Also part of the Ribes species.

Ash tree leaves/shoots: Some sources say that the leaves and fruit of the Ash are toxic to cattle and other ruminants, and others deem it safe. There really isn't any hard evidence on their effect on tortoises.

You can check the tortoise table database for plants for your tortoise. They usually err on the side of caution and label many plants as do not feed if they have been found dangerous to other animals. : https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/

If you can't find a plant on there, I would use their list of harmful properties for tortoises and check if the plant contains any.:

Harmful Properties

Harmful Properties

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

If you haven't read them yet, here is our article for new peple on the forum:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

And a care sheet for sulcatas: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-a-sulcata-leopard-or-star-tortoise.181504/

If any questions arise, please feel feel to ask here or make a new thread!

Thank you so much this is perfect. I have read the care sheet and info for new people which is really what led to me having to completely rethink everything I thought I already knew about what he needs.

Hi Kelly, and Welcome!

All those listed should be fed in moderation or not at all. Maybe think about planting instead grape vines, mulberry tree, Rose of Sharon, any vegetable plant, especially squashes, Honeysuckle, viola and pansy, plantain, portulaca, chickweed, purselane

This is great, thank you. I do have a bunch of more suitable stuff growing already but these were just things I couldn't find or could only find conflicting info on that are already growing wild, thanks!

 

[randomdemon]

Baby sulcata? and you're talking about exotic weeds...

Look, chop up (really fine or use a food processor) only the tips of green lettuce, raddichio, and add soaked Mazuri small tortoise LS. That will give you a year or more to entertain this semi-useless weed conversation.

Build an outdoor enclosure with grass for next year when it's nice and s/he will be eating grass and weeds outside.

Exotic weeds? How exactly are these exotic? Is this supposed to be sarcasm or am I missing something here? I just want to know which of the wild growing plants in my garden I can feed my tortoise.

He has an outdoor enclose already for when he's bigger, what's the issue? Most people seem to be advising a varied diet from a young age, therefore, your advice is mostly inconsistent to what seems to be the general agreed consensus on here, the attitude is entirely unnecessary and unhelpful and will drive more people away than it will help.

 

[ryan57]

Exotic weeds? How exactly are these exotic? Is this supposed to be sarcasm or am I missing something here? I just want to know which of the wild growing plants in my garden I can feed my tortoise.

He has an outdoor enclose already for when he's bigger, what's the issue? Most people seem to be advising a varied diet from a young age, therefore, your advice is mostly inconsistent to what seems to be the general agreed consensus on here, the attitude is entirely unnecessary and unhelpful and will drive more people away than it will help.

Please continue to enjoy WAAaAY overthinking this.

 

[Tom]

Exotic weeds? How exactly are these exotic? Is this supposed to be sarcasm or am I missing something here? I just want to know which of the wild growing plants in my garden I can feed my tortoise.

He has an outdoor enclose already for when he's bigger, what's the issue? Most people seem to be advising a varied diet from a young age, therefore, your advice is mostly inconsistent to what seems to be the general agreed consensus on here, the attitude is entirely unnecessary and unhelpful and will drive more people away than it will help.

His response seems a bit harsh to me too. I think you are on the right track. Maybe Ryan is having a bad day today or something.

Most of the commonly kept tortoise species have a wide margin of error for diet. The strategy mentioned by Ryan can work and its pretty easy for most people, but I certainly don't think that is a good way to go. A tortoise may survive on grocery store lettuce and Mazuri, but much better to feed the natural foods you are considering, and more variety.

 

[ryan57]

His response seems a bit harsh to me too. I think you are on the right track. Maybe Ryan is having a bad day today or something.

Most of the commonly kept tortoise species have a wide margin of error for diet. The strategy mentioned by Ryan can work and its pretty easy for most people, but I certainly don't think that is a good way to go. A tortoise may survive on grocery store lettuce and Mazuri, but much better to feed the natural foods you are considering, and more variety.

My point was the 70-80% grass when they get even 6 months old or so. Obsessing over the 20% or so is silly when they're going to eat 1) what they like for whatever reason 2) usually all of whatever is offered on their normal food plate and 3) whatever they want to eat when they are outdoors that is in their safe enclosure.

That's all.

 

[Tom]

My point was the 70-80% grass when they get even 6 months old or so. Obsessing over the 20% or so is silly when they're going to eat 1) what they like for whatever reason 2) usually all of whatever is offered on their normal food plate and 3) whatever they want to eat when they are outdoors that is in their safe enclosure.

That's all.

Everyone does it differently, and there is a wide margin of error. They are very adaptable. For some parts of every year I feed adults 100% grass hay and nothing else. Conversely, I have never fed a 6 month old even a single meal that was 70% grass. At that size and age, grass is making up less than 10% of their diet when in my care. Maybe less than 5%. And since I find the "natural" foods being asked about here to be nutritionally superior to grocery store lettuce, I spend a lot of time learning about, collecting, and cultivating those food items that make up over 90% of a young one's diet. Weeds, leaves, flowers and succulents. If I'm stuck using grocery store greens because I can't find anything better, I'm adding all sorts of amendments into them.

While I know a sulcata can survive on lettuce tips, raddichio, and some LS, I don't think those three foods items alone are a great diet. I think the OP is doing a great job thinking about this and trying to offer a good variety, while avoiding plants that might be toxic. I don't wish to discourage Kelly.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

My point was the 70-80% grass when they get even 6 months old or so. Obsessing over the 20% or so is silly when they're going to eat 1) what they like for whatever reason 2) usually all of whatever is offered on their normal food plate and 3) whatever they want to eat when they are outdoors that is in their safe enclosure.

That's all.

I see one point in offering a variety of wild weeds from start: to make tortoise less picky. Wild weeds and grasses aren't very palatable, so building a healthy habit when tortoise is still learning what's right or wrong is the right thing.

My own experience is limited, so I base on what I see in forum posts: it's seems there is a rather short period when baby tortoise is willing to try something new to eat. After that introducing new foods is laborous and long process.

 

[ryan57]

Everyone does it differently, and there is a wide margin of error. They are very adaptable. For some parts of every year I feed adults 100% grass hay and nothing else. Conversely, I have never fed a 6 month old even a single meal that was 70% grass. At that size and age, grass is making up less than 10% of their diet when in my care. Maybe less than 5%. And since I find the "natural" foods being asked about here to be nutritionally superior to grocery store lettuce, I spend a lot of time learning about, collecting, and cultivating those food items that make up over 90% of a young one's diet. Weeds, leaves, flowers and succulents. If I'm stuck using grocery store greens because I can't find anything better, I'm adding all sorts of amendments into them.

While I know a sulcata can survive on lettuce tips, raddichio, and some LS, I don't think those three foods items alone are a great diet. I think the OP is doing a great job thinking about this and trying to offer a good variety, while avoiding plants that might be toxic. I don't wish to discourage Kelly.

It would be interesting for those of us that only have experience with a couple tortoises to know what people offer their torts at various ages and what exactly of what was offered was consumed. I've offered quite a variety on a weekly basis (at least 25 different types of weeds, lettuce, grasses, supplements from Will's company, etc.) but what is picked around on a daily basis becomes very obvious.

 

[ryan57]

I see one point in offering a variety of wild weeds from start: to make tortoise less picky. Wild weeds and grasses aren't very palatable, so building a healthy habit when tortoise is still learning what's right or wrong is the right thing.

My own experience is limited, so I base on what I see in forum posts: it's seems there is a rather short period when baby tortoise is willing to try something new to eat. After that introducing new foods is laborous and long process.

I see one point in offering a variety of wild weeds from start: to make tortoise less picky. Wild weeds and grasses aren't very palatable, so building a healthy habit when tortoise is still learning what's right or wrong is the right thing. - I agree.

The point was that offering these things absolutely does not mean that they will be eaten. That's why my comment was framed as it was originally. This is what will happen:
1) OP - I offered my tortoise weeds (of a particular variety) and it didn't eat them.
2) someone knowledgeable and experienced will respond that they should be chopped up and gradually introduced into what they already are eating.
3) still not eating weeds, etc.

Why not cut to the chase? Chop up whatever you have and feed your tortoise BECAUSE:

Time will pass quickly and then when the tortoise is outside daily or full time it will make its own decision 100% on what it eats. Unfortunately. Including bolts, poop, plastic, rocks, wood, etc. Everyone with a sulcata knows this is how it goes. This monster over here tried to eat the shiny 1/2" bolts on the tongue of my log splitter today before I stopped him.

 

[Tom]

I see one point in offering a variety of wild weeds from start: to make tortoise less picky. Wild weeds and grasses aren't very palatable, so building a healthy habit when tortoise is still learning what's right or wrong is the right thing.

My own experience is limited, so I base on what I see in forum posts: it's seems there is a rather short period when baby tortoise is willing to try something new to eat. After that introducing new foods is laborous and long process.

This is accurate on all counts. Very observant, you are.

 

[Tom]

It would be interesting for those of us that only have experience with a couple tortoises to know what people offer their torts at various ages and what exactly of what was offered was consumed. I've offered quite a variety on a weekly basis (at least 25 different types of weeds, lettuce, grasses, supplements from Will's company, etc.) but what is picked around on a daily basis becomes very obvious.

I can see two things form your posts here:
1. Your tortoise wasn't started on the right foods after hatching.
2. Your technique for introducing the right foods and getting the tortoise to eat them needs some work.

My baby tortoises eat everything I offer them. Nothing is picked around. The solution to a picky tortoise that doesn't want to eat "good" foods is not to give in and let your toddler eat only cookies and ice cream. The solution is to invest the time and effort getting your toddler to eat the right things.

The point was that offering these things absolutely does not mean that they will be eaten. That's why my comment was framed as it was originally. This is what will happen:
1) OP - I offered my tortoise weeds (of a particular variety) and it didn't eat them.
2) someone knowledgeable and experienced will respond that they should be chopped up and gradually introduced into what they already are eating.
3) still not eating weeds, etc.

This may be what happened to you. This is not what happens when I do it, and when other people take the time to do it right. No one said it was easy to get a tortoise eating the right things after a breeder failed to do so. It can take weeks or months, and it can be frustrating, but it is doable 100% of the time. One more reason to buy a baby from the right source.

Why not cut to the chase? Chop up whatever you have and feed your tortoise BECAUSE:

Time will pass quickly and then when the tortoise is outside daily or full time it will make its own decision 100% on what it eats. Unfortunately. Including bolts, poop, plastic, rocks, wood, etc. Everyone with a sulcata knows this is how it goes. This monster over here tried to eat the shiny 1/2" bolts on the tongue of my log splitter today before I stopped him.

I don't know how it works in your pens, but in my pens there is dirt most of the year. They eat only what I feed them on their trays. What I feed them is the right foods, and that is what they eat. There is no choice for them. There is no grass or weeds or anything else to choose from. There are no bolts, poop, plastic, or log splitter parts in my tortoise enclosures. If those things are present in your tortoise's enclosure, its time for a clean up, and a serious re-evaluation of how those things are getting inside the pen. This is one of the many reasons why no tortoise should be running loose in the yard.