I m not one to ever remove a wild turtle from the wild,for a pet nor for a turtle collection,etc. I do have sliders,box turtles,that were brought to me because they were hit by cars and injured...I personally,my own opinion,is that no turtle should ever be taken from the wild for pet purposes nor for turtle collections. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here,but to me it seems wrong.I feel if you really love turtles,you do what is best for them,not you.Leave them be.(UNLESS they NEED to be moved from the wild because of some danger ,like buildings going up,etc,just example,but they too may be able to be relocated close to there).I don't mean to offend anyone..I would just like an honest answer.
Take wild turtles out of their environments for pets/collection-yes or no
- Thread starter dichj13
- Start date
Agree. There of course will be exceptions. like you already stated. I feel quilty about the boxies that died under my care as a child. The excuse, I didn't know any better just falls flat. I wish I had let them be back then.
If the world followed your philosophy we would have no pets at all. Even the people who have CB animals are still responsible for animals being taken from the wild since they have directly or indirectly financially rewarded everyone along the whole chain of people who are responsible for the collection of wild tortoises.
I have no problem with a limited, sustainable number of animals being taken from the wild and humanely transported to other continents for humans to enjoys as pets. I think most people will have a better experience if they buy CB stock, but we still need the foundation animals. Captive breeding has saved, and is saving, many species from the brink of extinction.
Because you were given your turtles and they needed some TLC does not mean you don't enjoy them. Others should also have the opportunity to enjoy them, no?
And besides that, captivity is not and should not be the living hell that some folks seem to think it is. I think most turtles and tortoises are pretty well loved and cared for. Sure there are exceptions, and we should all work to improve those exceptions, but most pets have a pretty good life compared to their wild counterparts. Most species live at least twice as long in captivity as they do the wild, and thats not even counting all the babies that get eaten and don't make it to maturity.
Ask yourself what you base your opinion on. Is it "feelings"? Or is it facts?
I have no problem with a limited, sustainable number of animals being taken from the wild and humanely transported to other continents for humans to enjoys as pets. I think most people will have a better experience if they buy CB stock, but we still need the foundation animals. Captive breeding has saved, and is saving, many species from the brink of extinction.
Because you were given your turtles and they needed some TLC does not mean you don't enjoy them. Others should also have the opportunity to enjoy them, no?
And besides that, captivity is not and should not be the living hell that some folks seem to think it is. I think most turtles and tortoises are pretty well loved and cared for. Sure there are exceptions, and we should all work to improve those exceptions, but most pets have a pretty good life compared to their wild counterparts. Most species live at least twice as long in captivity as they do the wild, and thats not even counting all the babies that get eaten and don't make it to maturity.
Ask yourself what you base your opinion on. Is it "feelings"? Or is it facts?
i say no they shouldn't be removed only because in some area's the population is endanger from people taking them, But as tom stated if no one had ever taken from the wild we'd have no pets, that being said the pet trade of turtles and tortoises is pretty strong now so i see no reason for anyone to take them from the wild
Tom,maybe I should have narrowed this down a bit. I have no problem breeding to save a species from extinction,etc. I merely meant going out into the woods,to the river,etc,in your own area,and collecting whatever you want,whenever you want.To go out and just find a box turtle in the woods,bring it home because you might want one,is that ok?Or do you feel you should find/buy a captive bred ? There are people around here that will pickup every box turtle they find,because they want it,for their collection.There is no research etc, involved either,just their collection.....I also don't believe all captivity is hell by any means..and yes there are many great turtle/tortoise homes,but then there are several not so good as well. I don't think we will ever know if there are more good homes,or bad homes.I would like to "feel" there are more good. I still believe,and I am going to say it is my "feelings", that to go collect what you want,whenever you want,in your neck of the woods is wrong.Buy them,rescue them,I respect your opinion.Thank you.
I feel leave it in the wild. There are enough to purchase if you want one. Yes, they had to be taken out in the past, but for most species, that isn't the case anymore. Do I want the endangered taken out of the wild, so they can hopefully be saved, yes. Chances are humans is what caused them to be endangered, so yes, we should help them. But to just pic one out for no reason other then ones own want, I don't think it should be done.
I think it is totally wrong for Susie Cream Cheese to bring home a box turtle that she 'found' while walking in the woods. Most wild box turtles don't take to being captive and die a lingering death.
As to mass collecting for sale, if its legal, I'm not against it, however it would be interesting to know how many of the mass collected turtles and tortoise die before reaching their target purchaser.
As to mass collecting for sale, if its legal, I'm not against it, however it would be interesting to know how many of the mass collected turtles and tortoise die before reaching their target purchaser.
I'm not sure what I would do if I face the situation......Really not sure.
Turtlepete
Well-Known Member
This depends; are you speaking from a sense of solely taking for pets, or taking in general? If you mean in general, then doing what is best for them is often taking them from the wild. So many captive conservation projects (turtle collections) would not happen if it weren't for wild caught specimens. Most wild Cuora (asian box turtles) are pretty much exterminated from their native range. There is zero way to protect them in their native habitat. At this rate, in a couple decades they're gone. Forever. EXCEPT, they will still be in captivity, assuming wild specimens were collected before extinction. In that sense, taking them from the wild ensures they will still exist in the future.
As far as walking out your door and picking up a random wild turtle or tortoise, never should this ever be done, unless perhaps it's an invasive species. Assuming the animal wasn't in danger, of course. We already have a plentiful captive population to choose from if you want a "pet", and the phrase "sustainable harvest" that gets tossed around when talking about WC pets is bogus. As far as the argument that if we didn't then we wouldn't have chelonia as pets today doesn't hold water, as back then, when first introduced to the hobby, their numbers were plentiful in the wild, in comparison to today.
I was talking about taking them for pets.(and those that capture them and put them on craigslist,etc to make a fast buck-I see this frequently) I would never have a problem taking them from the wild to save a species from extinction.Thank you for your opinion .I am just trying to see how people feel about this subject.
IntenseCookie
Member
It's not a good idea. A lot of people get bored of their tortoises and/or turtles which they took from the wild, and then released them back outside. This inevitably kills the tortoise, for the obvious; inability to survive in the wild. I will admit that my tortoise was taken from the wild, but this is just because he was found in the middle of a bust city, where it is next to impossible for him to survive. I wasn't sure if he was lost from his original owner, and I didn't want to ditch him if he wasn't going to live.. so I took him in. He does live outside though, in a large pen.
Why would a WC tortoise not be able to survive in the wild if it was released in the same area where it was found? Sorry. This is not obvious to me. Can you explain why you think this and are telling people.
IntenseCookie
Member
It's a busy city without vegetation, like the stereotypical New York. I should have mentioned that I found him in December, and tortoises hibernate. I've never seen a tortoise walking down the side walk in winter, unless they get out of their home somehow, like through a dog door or open window.
What? What city in AZ is anything like NY? I'm sorry. I think we are taking about two different things here.
IntenseCookie
Member
I guess we are.. I didn't get any sleep last night and I already lack common sense ^.^" My answer though is no, never take a tortoise from the wild without reason. And if you do take it, the tortoise must live in a proper home with care.
The one we keep secret and hidden from the other 49 states... I kid.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...pet-stores-that-sell-wild-caught-torts.89008/
This is a topic that can become very heated...here are some past members feeling on wild caught for pet industry topic....have fun.
This is a topic that can become very heated...here are some past members feeling on wild caught for pet industry topic....have fun.
zaroba
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 17
Removing for rehab or relocation due to construction (or local 'evil' kids) is perfectly fine imo.
But as for keeping as a pet, there are many factors to take into consideration when it comes to taking *any* reptile out of the wild
A. Is that species even available in captivity? If the species isn't available in captivity, then there would be no choice but to take it from the wild if you wanted to get one.
B. What are the local laws regarding that species? Many areas do have laws regarding how many of a reptile can be caught legally. Many areas have laws about what can be sold in that area. It may not be possible to buy a reptile even if it is available in captivity.
C. What is the species population like in that area and surrounding areas? Abundant everywhere? Localized to a small area? Scarce?
D. What is the landscape like? Park? Farmland? Stream that often dries up in hot weather and is prone to poisoning in spring due to a local golf coarse spraying it's land with fert and pesticides?
Even if a species IS available in captivity, it may be hard to obtain due to local state/city laws regarding the sale of native species. For Example, here in PA, it is illegal to sell native PA species, so I would have to drive outside of the state to try and buy a Ring Neck Snake. But, the PA Fish and Game laws say that if I have a fishing license, I am allowed to catch one per a year and am allowed to be in possession of no more then 1 snake at any given time. IUCN has them listed as least concern and they are said to be abundant in PA. So, in this example, I cannot legally buy a Ring Neck Snake unless I leave the state, or I could legally remove 1 snake from an abundant population in the wild.
If a non-native reptile is found, then I say remove it regardless of it's population or IUCN status.
It shouldn't be there at all and might not even survive long.
But as for keeping as a pet, there are many factors to take into consideration when it comes to taking *any* reptile out of the wild
A. Is that species even available in captivity? If the species isn't available in captivity, then there would be no choice but to take it from the wild if you wanted to get one.
B. What are the local laws regarding that species? Many areas do have laws regarding how many of a reptile can be caught legally. Many areas have laws about what can be sold in that area. It may not be possible to buy a reptile even if it is available in captivity.
C. What is the species population like in that area and surrounding areas? Abundant everywhere? Localized to a small area? Scarce?
D. What is the landscape like? Park? Farmland? Stream that often dries up in hot weather and is prone to poisoning in spring due to a local golf coarse spraying it's land with fert and pesticides?
Even if a species IS available in captivity, it may be hard to obtain due to local state/city laws regarding the sale of native species. For Example, here in PA, it is illegal to sell native PA species, so I would have to drive outside of the state to try and buy a Ring Neck Snake. But, the PA Fish and Game laws say that if I have a fishing license, I am allowed to catch one per a year and am allowed to be in possession of no more then 1 snake at any given time. IUCN has them listed as least concern and they are said to be abundant in PA. So, in this example, I cannot legally buy a Ring Neck Snake unless I leave the state, or I could legally remove 1 snake from an abundant population in the wild.
If a non-native reptile is found, then I say remove it regardless of it's population or IUCN status.
It shouldn't be there at all and might not even survive long.
