Take wild turtles out of their environments for pets/collection-yes or no

[ascott]

Such a defeatist attitude.

I believe you my friend are reading my message in a light different than my meaning.....I am fully aware that the damage done is by humans....I am fully aware that there is damage we have done that can not be fixed....I am an advocate for humans to knock this crap off and to come down off of the proverbial high horse and stop trying to hide the source of the damage behind some fluff of how awesome we are by "helping"...we need to slap our own hands each time we reach out into this world to do damage....

Your argument seems to say what the heck .... Let them go

This is your eyes reading it this way....I am completely against the dismissive destruction of so much of this world. I find it disgusting the plight we force onto other living creatures. However, I believe the part that may be throwing you is....I fully place blame where it belongs, I fully understand that as long as we fluff the story to make ourselves look and feel good, then nothing will ever change...

breeding and intervention programs

People destroy things, people feel kinda crappy after they destroy things, people need to figure a way to "feel" good about feeling crappy, they rally around other people who feel crappy as well, they come up with a plan to "save" a species from destruction, when in all actuality....if we as a species would realign our beliefs of how awesome we think we are....and realize that we are just a single species in the entire mix and how we don't know the impact one holds on another...therefore each is just as important as the other and each should be valuable....what if we were meant to "tend the garden" so to speak and not to claim it....? "Programs" are just another way people try to make themselves feel good for the damage they have already done...how about we just stop it and there would not be such a need for damage control....

Don't get me wrong, I too have dropped to my knees holding an injured Great Blue Herron, intwined in clear fishing line, so tight it nearly cut the legs off--snip by snip removing without doing further damage....I have swam out into lakes where ducklings are tethered by debris to cat tails, drowning...I have driven full grown Pelicans to a wildlife way/rehab station-- where it's life was saved but was forced to remain at, captive for the rest of its life--due to the damage of humans...I could go on and on....my point is this, there is no where in my post where I advocate not helping an injured tortoise/turtle or other animal....this is the opportunity that is given man to show that side of us that is fully compassionate, fully willing to do what has to-- to help a helpless animal....but there in lies my greatest angst....we have the ability to be great keepers of this awesome planet but instead we find the destruction and the dismissal of other living creatures as some perverse right....and this is where the damage starts and this is where the damage can be prevented....and when we fail and when we falter then the damage has occurred ...and this is where the fluff comes into play...why can we not just say we did it, we are responsible, it is our fault...but rather we have to deny, by saying the planet is so lucky to have us and we are going to "help" "save" a species before it is too late...this my friend is where I am coming from....so by all means, save the helpless or injured but in doing so...evaluate what was the cause of that helpless or inured animals damages or death--and that, THAT, is what we need to rally together to stop....

I hope that I have articulated a bit better here, so as to thwart the train of miscommunication.....

 

[Yvonne G]

Well, I think it's wonderful that there are some people in this world who try to help the tortoises. Groups like TSA, Turtle Conservancy, etc. are trying to change the world by example. They are in the minority, but at least they're trying. I support them $$-wise because that's all I can do. I think the Asian Scholarship Program was a wonderful effort at trying to educate individuals who then took their knowledge back to their country and applied it. The person who sits back and says we're all bad and shame on us, and does nothing to try to change the problem is just as bad (in my opinion) as the person who takes protected turtles from the wild.

But one can't paint all mankind with the same paint brush. There are those who destroy the habitats/animals without a backward glance, there are those apathetic individuals who put their head in the sand and there are those who try to do something about it. I say, good job. Keep up the good work. I support your efforts.

 

[Alaskamike]

Okay ascott, I understand your position. It hurts to realize and fully accept that being part of the human race, we (the corporate 'we') are responsible for the greatest destructions and evil on this planet for certain. I get that, accept that.

I think you also misunderstood my original post. In no way do I believe that conservation efforts make up for the destruction and wanton abuse of animals. Only that conservation efforts are STILL worth the effort , no matter what. We probably agree on much more than we see in these words. It is easy to be misunderstood in a few paragraphs.

 

[Turtlepete]

@ascott

Please, stop trying to refer to mankind as a collective "we". You seem to have created an idea for yourself that everyone on this earth is equally at fault for the destruction, that we are all one "we". You also are implying that because we did the damage, we shouldn't be trying to fix it?! Are you seriously saying that we broke it so we shouldn't attempt to fix it? Did that make more sense when you wrote it? Please tell me I'm mis-understanding you here.

"People destroy things, people feel kinda crappy after they destroy things, people need to figure a way to "feel" good about feeling crappy, they rally around other people who feel crappy as well, they come up with a plan to "save" a species from destruction, when in all actuality....if we as a species would realign our beliefs of how awesome we thinkwe are....and realize that we are just a single species in the entire mix and how we don't know the impact one holds on another...therefore each is just as important as the other and each should be valuable....what if we were meant to "tend the garden" so to speak and not to claim it....? "Programs" are just another way people try to make themselves feel good for the damage they have already done...how about we just stop it and there would not be such a need for damage control…."

Please, explain to me. Who on earth thinks we're all so awesome? Again, you have this idea of a collective "we", that we are all equally at fault, that everyone on earth must have the same ideas of how awesome we are.
You seem to have absolutely no understanding of the fact that the "we" that starts plans to "save a species from destruction" can have no effect what-so-ever on the destruction of natural habitat. We are not politicians. And that, my friend, is politics. What that "we" can do, is try to ensure that one day, these species will still exist. See, what the "we" that is interested in saving the species does, is try to ensure that one day, these species still exist, regardless if thats just in captivity. If you had your way, they would just entirely disappear, because this collective "we" of the human race was at fault for the destruction. What the "we" that is interested in conservation does is try to do something about it. They aren't just stereotyping the entire human race into one collective "we" and whining about the damage done.
The "we" that is interested in conservation doesn't have the power to change the entire mindset of everyone on planet earth, to make them "realign their beliefs of how awesome we think we are". They can't do that. The idea that, because they can't, they shouldn't do anything about the problem, they shouldn't attempt to save the species, is "fluff" indeed.
So please, quit it with the "we". Everyone on earth is not a collective "we". Terrorists and hippies and land developers (oh my!) aren't all at equal fault for the destruction of the planet.

Hope I didn't "bite" with my post.

 

[ascott]

@Turtlepete

Hope I didn't "bite" with my post.

No concern...nothing you said here carries any weight with me, so no---no need to worry

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Alright, I agree with Yvonne and TurtlePete. There is a fine line between the we's of the human race.
One side is the we I believe ascott is mostly referring too. That side hunts, poaches, kills, does some other stuff without caring. That couldn't give a fluff about doing so.
That other side (which I hope is the majority of poulation) does care. They recognize the damage done and try their very best to fix the wrong the other side has caused.
Of course, there is a neutral ground between of people who don't care either way, and aren't involved in the war between the 'bad' side and 'good' side. It is awful to think that those people on the 'bad' side has so little feeling or care about the animals and habitats they destroy, but see, that's where the other 'good' side is trying to fix it! I'm not sure I understand, ascott, your take on the 'sit back and let it burn' outlook on 'bad' side of the war. If WE (the collective WE on the GOOD and NEUTRAL sides) don't do anything about the fire, than we might as well just throw up our hands and join the bad side. I think that as long as there are distinctive sides on which their point someone may choose to take, than there is a reason to care about all the fluff, and to try and help everything that 'we've' done wrong.

 

[Louise C]

The argument becomes pretty simple here in the UK....there's no native tortoise species and regards other types of wild animals it not legal to take and make into a pet (say fox cubs etc). When it comes to tortoises some business' will have a licence to import wild caught animals but I would not buy one of these on principle as it's a money making business and they tend not to care about the welfare too much. Also....lots of captive bred torts to sale and for rehoming so there's no shortage for pet owners like me.