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Len B

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I'll bet you find the rheostat will use more electricity than the thermostat if all things are set properly. A constant on heat source dialed to a specific wattage will still draw that wattage even when the temperature rises to the desired minimum requirement. So will overheat a great deal of the time. Still nice for rising daytime temps, but still drawing energy even when you may reach a point over what is needed heat-wise. In a poorly insulated enclosure or night box that would be of more benefit as the desired overall temperature may not be reached as easily. But in a well-insulated enclosure/night box, there is a lot of time the thermostat will rarely have to turn on, while the rheostat controller is still drawing wattage. My Burmese Star night box for example set for 86° this time of year: overnight last night it dropped to 35°. This means I am needed to keep the night box 51° warmer than outside. Early this morning in the hours it was 35° my 600 watt heater turned on and ran for 16 minutes per hour. A month ago with overnight temps around 50° the thermostat turned on for 14 minutes every 115 minutes. And, during the day it did not turn on at all for almost 9 hours. During the summer I do leave it on, but it often only comes on twice for 13 -14 minutes during the night that drops to the low 60°s.

SO the colder part of the year when using the most energy my setup is using right at 600 watts for 1/4 hour or 150 watts per hour, to heat 50° above outside temps. To heat 20° above outside it uses about 70 watts per hour. AND... all of that drops as daytime temperatures rise. With a set rheostat it does not change over the course of a day.

I love this thread and the discussion. I do not believe the rheostat is better over a thermostat in a well designed enclosure or night box, though.

I do believe there is a place for floor heat with a rheostat, however. When trying to emulate ground temperatures in an environment where we have ground temperature substantially below what would be found in the natural habitat, using a matt or underfloor heating basically would be used to better approximate ground temperatures. Tortoises are designed to use ground temperatures to moderate their own temperatures. They use overhead (basking) heat to raise their body temperatures as desired. They don't "know" what sitting on ground too cold is! All their organs are towards the bottom of their bodies and the bulk of the top of the body is simply lungs. That is why they can burn the top of their carapace easily if given basking heat too hot while trying to heat their "core" which is at the bottom of their body - towards the plastron.

In trying to emulate ground temperature a rheostat would be the choice over a thermostat. We would want the ground a constant temperature - not to heat the tortoise or enclosure, but to create the desired "ground temperature" to prevent a tortoise from having to sit on ground colder than desired. This can be a big problem in many enclosures, especially if not well insulated.
Not sure I can explain my thoughts and reasoning that makes sense to you. Let's start with this, In the late 1970s I was working at a new LNG plant on the Chesapeake Bay out on the pier a mile from the shore line. Fishing was great So what we did was make a box out of the same insulation we were putting on the liquified natural gas lines and used it as an oven. Had an apprentice cooking fish using a 60 watt incandescent light bulb as the heat source. It worked great and cooked quick. With a well insulated house less wattage is needed to keep it warm. It does take time to get the correct settings because each heat source affects how the other heat sources produce heat. With the sulcatas I have living outside all year I like the slight day night temperature changes inside the house that aren't as drastic as what's happening temperature wise outside because of proper insulation which holds heat in longer.
 

Len B

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Mark, you are correct. "But in a well-insulated enclosure/night box, there is a lot of time the thermostat will rarely have to turn on, while the rheostat controller is still drawing wattage."

Yes, Rheostat will in fact use more electricity because the means of manipulating the load is resistance exactly like a potentiometer. No on and off cycles.

Thermostat is one long temperature dependent cycle of full on and full off.

Dimmers are many rapid cycles off on and off. About 100-120 times per second every time the wave crosses zero.
Yes. Dimmers are actually turning the lights on and off many times each second. That's how it works.

Now that dimmers (if lights are a heat source) are about 99% efficient requiring 1W for every 100W used, dimmers AND a thermostat are a good combo. The thermostat calls for on or off and the dimmer responds with only the intensity required to maintain temp. Add thermal mass as a heat "battery" and that's as efficient as it gets for electric. I'm a control system programmer so I have processors laying around to handle this for my reef tank, etc.

An idea for the ground taken from commercial grow houses: If covered by a greenhouse type of enclosure you take hot air, pump it into the ground via pipes under the greenhouse during the day to store the heat in an "earth battery" and then reverse the fan based on temp in the greenhouse over night. In a tortoise application, you could distribute heat through piping from any air or water source. That's what radiant heating is and totally applicable for heating an entire enclosure to a suitable ground temp.
Some of what you said is over my head. Is it like a LED bulb that blinks on and off can't remember the exact number but around a thousand times a second? About radiant floor heating I ran soft copper tubing throughout the floor of Walkers house just in case I needed more heat. The hardest part of that was mapping it out so I didn't run a screw thru the tubing while installing the floor.KIMG1671.JPGNever needed it but it's there. I have a 4 gallon hot water heater a circulating pump and roll of high temperature water tubing setting in the garage still in it's original packaging since 2008. I even ran extra romex wiring through the walls just in case.
KIMG1672.JPGThis is where the tie in would be on the outside and there are several tie ins like this on the inside walls just in case. Tried to think of anything that may be needed later as I building in 2008.
 

Wpagey

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We live in SoCal, have an 80 lb 12 year old Sully, who lives outside with 4x4x2 nightbox using Tom’s design. Inside has heated floor mat and 40 watt rhp above. This is the first winter with this setup and I think we need more rhp heat. The thermostat probe is on the cold side of the box and reads 15-20 degrees over outside temperature at night. Since radiant heat is designed to heat the animal rather than the surrounding air, how do I know that the 80 degree thermostat setting is realistic and what I should be trying to achieve? Also, since the 80 watt rhp I want has been out of stock forever, as alternative I found this: Cozy Products CL Cozy Safe Chicken Coop Heater 200 Watts Safer Than Brooder Lamps, One Size, Black https://a.co/d/c5ry9gs And this: SWEETER HEATER Safe Heater for Chicks, Coops, & Animals, OH11x40, 150 Watt https://a.co/d/cc4ddZW Does anyone use these and is the Sweeter Heater four times better—based on the cost?
 

Len B

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We live in SoCal, have an 80 lb 12 year old Sully, who lives outside with 4x4x2 nightbox using Tom’s design. Inside has heated floor mat and 40 watt rhp above. This is the first winter with this setup and I think we need more rhp heat. The thermostat probe is on the cold side of the box and reads 15-20 degrees over outside temperature at night. Since radiant heat is designed to heat the animal rather than the surrounding air, how do I know that the 80 degree thermostat setting is realistic and what I should be trying to achieve? Also, since the 80 watt rhp I want has been out of stock forever, as alternative I found this: Cozy Products CL Cozy Safe Chicken Coop Heater 200 Watts Safer Than Brooder Lamps, One Size, Black https://a.co/d/c5ry9gs And this: SWEETER HEATER Safe Heater for Chicks, Coops, & Animals, OH11x40, 150 Watt https://a.co/d/cc4ddZW Does anyone use these and is the Sweeter Heater four times better—based on the cost?
I use the brooder heater from Tractor Supply. KIMG1515.JPGIt has 2 settings 40 and 200 watts.
 

Yvonne G

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Also, move the RHP over to the side where the tortoise parks at night.
 

Yvonne G

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The thermostat probe is what is on the cold side, and the tortoise moves to wherever he likes
I see.

I have two night boxes. One is in a greenhouse and has three RHP on each wall at one end of the box. This configuration has worked for three winters, keeping it warm enough for the tortoises that live in that area.

I'm having trouble with the other one, which is outside up against a back wall of my house. It has two RHP at one end on opposing walls and it's not warm enough in there. Today I'm working on how to attach a CHE to the ceiling, and maybe add a small pig blanket to the floor.

The night house in the GH is a home made fully insulated one made out of plywood and rigid foam, while the night house outside is a PVC patio box that has had rigid foam insulation added to all surfaces inside.
 

Wpagey

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I see.

I have two night boxes. One is in a greenhouse and has three RHP on each wall at one end of the box. This configuration has worked for three winters, keeping it warm enough for the tortoises that live in that area.

I'm having trouble with the other one, which is outside up against a back wall of my house. It has two RHP at one end on opposing walls and it's not warm enough in there. Today I'm working on how to attach a CHE to the ceiling, and maybe add a small pig blanket to the floor.

The night house in the GH is a home made fully insulated one made out of plywood and rigid foam, while the night house outside is a PVC patio box that has had rigid foam insulation added to all surfaces
I see.

I have two night boxes. One is in a greenhouse and has three RHP on each wall at one end of the box. This configuration has worked for three winters, keeping it warm enough for the tortoises that live in that area.

I'm having trouble with the other one, which is outside up against a back wall of my house. It has two RHP at one end on opposing walls and it's not warm enough in there. Today I'm working on how to attach a CHE to the ceiling, and maybe add a small pig blanket to the floor.

The night house in the GH is a home made fully insulated one made out of plywood and rigid foam, while the night house outside is a PVC patio box that has had rigid foam insulation added to all surfaces inside.
When we got our tort 1 1/2 years ago, we were given the somewhat insulated dog house with a CHE that the previous owners were using. After finding The Forum, we went to heat mat below and rhp above as well as building Toms nightbox. Having heat from above and below is working much better for us.
 

Len B

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I've been thinking about the discussion on the difference of thermostats and dimmers here. I would like to try incorporating a thermostat in the new house that I'm building for Thomas. Since I have no idea what kind to get I'm looking for suggestions on which one to start with.
 

jaizei

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I've been thinking about the discussion on the difference of thermostats and dimmers here. I would like to try incorporating a thermostat in the new house that I'm building for Thomas. Since I have no idea what kind to get I'm looking for suggestions on which one to start with.

A proportional thermostat will work like the rheostat and adjust automatically based on the temperature, instead of turning on/off.

Herpstat and Reptile Basics VE-200 or VE-300. Some Exo Terra and Zoo Med thermostats are proportional.
 

Len B

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A proportional thermostat will work like the rheostat and adjust automatically based on the temperature, instead of turning on/off.

Herpstat and Reptile Basics VE-200 or VE-300. Some Exo Terra and Zoo Med thermostats are proportional.
Thank You, This is very helpful.
 

Markw84

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I've been thinking about the discussion on the difference of thermostats and dimmers here. I would like to try incorporating a thermostat in the new house that I'm building for Thomas. Since I have no idea what kind to get I'm looking for suggestions on which one to start with.
I don't use proportional in my night houses or enclosures. A basic thermostat like the inkbird, I use mostly, will only have a hystereis of 2° in an insulated nightbox of the "Tom" variety. I do use the oil filled radiator and you can not have that on a proportional as well. You could even reduce the hysteresis by placing the probe closer to the heat source, but I like it with the probe near the cool spot of the box. I am in the process of moving right now and building all new night boxes for my tortoises. I have purchased the Inkbird wifi thermostats for each night box. That way I can control temperatures in the night box remotely as well as view temperature history/graphs from the same app.

 

Len B

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I don't use proportional in my night houses or enclosures. A basic thermostat like the inkbird, I use mostly, will only have a hystereis of 2° in an insulated nightbox of the "Tom" variety. I do use the oil filled radiator and you can not have that on a proportional as well. You could even reduce the hysteresis by placing the probe closer to the heat source, but I like it with the probe near the cool spot of the box. I am in the process of moving right now and building all new night boxes for my tortoises. I have purchased the Inkbird wifi thermostats for each night box. That way I can control temperatures in the night box remotely as well as view temperature history/graphs from the same app.

Thanks Mark, I like this one and didn't know about the proportional not working on the oil filled radiator type heaters. I like the price too. This morning I ordered this KIMG1675.JPGI was looking for something with a high temperature range and high wattage use. So I wouldn't accidentally cook it. If I can get this one set correctly I've got other houses to do and really like the WiFi use the inkbird offers so I'll order some.
 

Levi the Leopard

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I use Hydrofarm Jump Start digital thermostats. The one in Levi's house operates his mini oil filled radiator. It has been in use for at least 8 years and is still running. I have another one operating my Ball Python's CHE and that one is going on 6 years. I have 2 more stored in an extra supply bin that were in use when I had more critters.

I love them. They work exactly like I want. When the temps drop 2 degrees below the set temperature, they click the heat source fully on. When temps reach the set temperature, it clicks the heat source fully off.

Capture.JPG
 

Cathie G

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I use Hydrofarm Jump Start digital thermostats. The one in Levi's house operates his mini oil filled radiator. It has been in use for at least 8 years and is still running. I have another one operating my Ball Python's CHE and that one is going on 6 years. I have 2 more stored in an extra supply bin that were in use when I had more critters.

I love them. They work exactly like I want. When the temps drop 2 degrees below the set temperature, they click the heat source fully on. When temps reach the set temperature, it clicks the heat source fully off.

View attachment 351780
I love the oil filled heaters too. Cheap too operate. Safe for animals and children. Not prone to start fires yet effective and lasts for years. I have one that works great and it's probably around 13 years old.
 

wellington

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I use Hydrofarm Jump Start digital thermostats. The one in Levi's house operates his mini oil filled radiator. It has been in use for at least 8 years and is still running. I have another one operating my Ball Python's CHE and that one is going on 6 years. I have 2 more stored in an extra supply bin that were in use when I had more critters.

I love them. They work exactly like I want. When the temps drop 2 degrees below the set temperature, they click the heat source fully on. When temps reach the set temperature, it clicks the heat source fully off.

View attachment 351780
Mine needs to support 1500 watts. I don't use a mini oil filled radiator, I use the full size ones. Most don't support the 1500w. The ones I used to use worked great but only lasted 2 years. Hopefully the new inkbird I got will last longer. It was double the price so it better.
 
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