maggie3fan said:
wow sorry i got lazy with the punctuation, i forgot how thin skinned everyone here is.
Thoughts on getting a second tortoise
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wow sorry i got lazy with the punctuation, i forgot how thin skinned everyone here is.
My Leopard and Hermann's tortoise hang out together. They graze together, and I'll find them nested down together in the tort yard. You can't say that torts don't appreciate company... I'm sure more than one person has brought up the well known story of Owen and Mmzee?
sdirks said:
I can't really comment on how well or not-so-well tortoises do together (other than the known fact that they aren't exactly social in the wild)... But about the bigger enclosure. It looks like you have sand as substrate in those later pictures... If you are indeed using sand as Max's bedding, you really need to change that. Sand is a terrible substrate for any animal, especially tortoises. It's dry as a bone, unsanitary, and can cause some serious impaction if he accidentally ingests it, since it is NOT digestible (that includes the "Calcisand" or "Reptisand" sold by pet stores.. NOT digestible!).
If I'm wrong or you've already corrected this issue, you're welcome to disregard this. I just couldn't ignore it when no one else has noticed or commented on it.
The bag said it's crushed English walnuts... it was at a pet store, and they even put bags of it under the enclosure they keep their Russian tortoises in. But I've been noticing mentions in this forum how how bad sand is, so I've been confused. It was expensive too! We poured 6 bags in there. I hope that wasn't all money down the drain.
From what I understand, crushed walnuts is about on the same lines as sand--a gritty, dry impaction risk. IMO, no better than sand... 
You always need to keep in mind that 99% of pet stores have NO idea how to take care of these animals correctly. They don't care about their animals' welfare... Just about the money they can get by selling you the wrong (and very expensive) stuff for their overpriced, often unhealthy animals. And even those that do care usually do a lot wrong and still don't care enough to correct it. It's a shame that this pet store keeps their tortoises incorrectly, but please don't fall into the trap of thinking pet store employees/owners actually know what they're doing or care about whether it's right for the animal.
Once you know a bit more on the subject (i.e. why walnuts and sand are bad and why moist substrates are best), it might be worth trying to educate the pet store. Some actually will change how they do things when presented with what's "right."
Better options for substrate include soil, cypress mulch, and eco earth. I use plain topsoil in my Russians' indoor enclosures, and it works great. It's also a lot more aesthetically pleasing than sand and the like, and, big bonus--it's cheap! A decent organic top soil can be as inexpensive as just a couple dollars for a 2 sq ft bag.
You always need to keep in mind that 99% of pet stores have NO idea how to take care of these animals correctly. They don't care about their animals' welfare... Just about the money they can get by selling you the wrong (and very expensive) stuff for their overpriced, often unhealthy animals. And even those that do care usually do a lot wrong and still don't care enough to correct it. It's a shame that this pet store keeps their tortoises incorrectly, but please don't fall into the trap of thinking pet store employees/owners actually know what they're doing or care about whether it's right for the animal.
Once you know a bit more on the subject (i.e. why walnuts and sand are bad and why moist substrates are best), it might be worth trying to educate the pet store. Some actually will change how they do things when presented with what's "right."
Better options for substrate include soil, cypress mulch, and eco earth. I use plain topsoil in my Russians' indoor enclosures, and it works great. It's also a lot more aesthetically pleasing than sand and the like, and, big bonus--it's cheap! A decent organic top soil can be as inexpensive as just a couple dollars for a 2 sq ft bag.
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Floof said:
After I learned from this BB that I needed to change some things that Petsmart recommended and sold us, I returned to the store and asked to speak with someone about my concerns. I used specific examples of things an employee told me and why I now knew they were incorrect.
My local store seems to actually care about how they keep the animals, and the employee who sold me things she shouldn't have is no longer working there. Apparently they're in the process of trying to educate all the employees about the various care and habitats. The cages are always clean, etc.
After the discussion in which one of my concerns was the Calcisand they sold me that I had to discard, the manager gave me a $20 credit to make up for the sand I had to toss.
That's very good to hear! Now if only we could convince the stores to stop carrying crap like Calcisand completely... Haha.
Just to add my own observation to the discussion. My russians all seemed to enjoy sleeping in a pile at night. The actual place was generally different (sometimes in the hide, sometimes near a corner, etc.) but they came together at night and slept in a proper pile stacked around and even on top of one another. Honestly, it reminded me of Where the Wild Things are.
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