Thoughts on Humidity/Pyramiding

[EchoTheLeoTort]

I have spent a lot of time reading up on members threads on pyramiding, especially Toms, and other people with smooth shelled leopards. I have a hatchling leopard tortoise, and as he/she is starting to grow I've noticed that the new growth is a very small amount, but when I run my fingers over it, it is raised. It might just be this way and it will smooth out, but it got me really thinking about pyramiding. I have to admit that I didn't put the lid on his enclosure at first, and he just has his 150 watt heat lamp, nothing special about it. I sprayed his shell down about 4 times a day, as well as the enclosure, but with an open top I am sure that it didn't really do much. So i am making some changes before its to late and pyramiding starts. The picture of the enclosure I am posting now is going to have changes to it when I have money. I plan on getting a power sun bulb (not sure on 100 watt or 160 watt, opinions?) that has the uvb in it because he will be inside at least 8 months of the year until I move out of this state. However, as it is summer, his outdoor enclosure is in construction and he is going to be out there a good part each day, so I do have time to get money to get him a power sun bulb since I won't need it until fall comes. I also wanted to go over my plan of attack for right now. I have heard that some people pour water and mix up the substrate so it is pretty damp, as well as spray their torts down throughout the day, so I plan on doing just that. This morning I poured enough water throughout the enclosure to where it wasn't soaking wet but it was damp, as well as sprayed Echo's shell down till he drips. I plan on spraying him about 5-6 times a day, and I will spray the enclosure when it starts to dry up. I also as you can see put the lid on so it holds in heat and humidity. I use sphagnum moss and coco coir so it won't mold. The hanging lamp is the 150 watt bulb, and the one resting on the enclosure is just a 75, so that side is heated but also the cooler side. I know that some people said that infrared lights may not be the best, so as soon as I get money I will get regular bulbs. (not coil of course) So with all of that, will this water trick and spraying him down be enough to prevent pyramiding or should I invest money to get a repti fogger for the enclosure? It stays pretty wet in his enclosure and I am home all day so I can keep it damp as need be. Soon to come I will get the power sun bulb with uvb, please let me know what wattage you guys think, and I will get a regular 75 watt bulb for the other lamp to heat the other side that isn't infrared. Opinions are definitely welcome as well as suggestions!

 

[theelectraco]

If you use the Powersun, it will need to be on that stand and raised. Setting it like the day light pictured will be too low.

 

[TommyZ]

I recently learned a hard lesson about the substrate, dont wet it all, the layer on top, where the torts plastron lays should not even be damp, it should be dry. I just went through this all last week, by keeping it damp i inadvertantly caused a minor case of fungal shell rot on my tort. The idea is to have the bottom layers of substrate be wet, but the top dry, so the tort is not laying on damp ground. I use 4 inches of substrate total, the bottom three are cypress mulch the top is reptibark it seems to dry out really well. Also do not pour the water all over the entire enclosure pour it into the corners (thanks Barb) and let it run down the wall into the bottom of the enclosure this way its not soaking up all the top layer of substrate.

 

[wellington]

My first opinion is you need a bigger box. One with taller sides. The low sides will not allow enough space between tort and lights and it will be much harder to keep temps and humidity correct. A large plastic tote doesn't cost much, 30 or less at a Home Depot or even a walmart. Get the 100 watt and a CHE. Cut holes in the lid just a little bigger then the bulb, line the rim of the hole with tin foil and set the lights over the hole. You need a humidity at 80 or above but do not let temps get lower then 80. Hot and humid is good, cold and humid equals a sick tort. Piping a humidifier in will help as spraying several times a day will make it harder to achieve the correct numbers every time you open the lid to spray. Toms threads are below in my post. Re-read and achieve as close as possible.

 

[Tom]

I can't believe the temp is correct under that bulb. 150 watts from 6" away? That is the sort of thing that will dry out their carapace and create pyramiding. In my closed chambers I use a 65 watt flood bulb from about 18" away to achieve a 100 degree basking spot. Please check those temps with a remote probed thermometer AND a temp gun.

Barb is right. You need a much taller and bigger enclosure. I prefer closed chambers. There are people who will build them for you or you can build them your self.

Even though leopards are not prone to shell rot the way redfoots are, they still don't need wet or damp substrate. They need high humidity. This is near impossible to do in a normal house with an open top. A simple humid hide will help with this a lot. Get a black dishing tub from Walmart for $1.82. Flip it upside down, cut a door hole, wet the substrate under it and WHAM! You gotta humid hide. If the rest of the enclosure stays a little dry, it won't be the end of the world.

Are you soaking daily? You should for at least the next six months.

I'm not a big fan of the foggers. If you need that to maintain humidity, it should be a sign that your enclosure is not set up right yet. It's like if you have a leaky tub. A fogger is like putting more water in your leaking tub, instead of plugging the leak. Then things get to cool with all the evaporation so you need more heat. More heat causes things to get too dry, so you need more wetness. It is a vicious cycle and a constant struggle. A closed chamber eliminates all this. It is very easy to maintain perfect temps and humidity all the time in a closed chamber with a minimum of effort and a fraction of the electricity.

Sorry to hear money is an issue, but that red bulb during the day has gotta go. No bueno. I don't even like them for night time. Invest in a CHE and a thermostat. These last a long time and work much better.

 

[rideburton87]

Yeah I highly doubt your temps are right. I use a 75w heat lamp in my closed chamber, its gotta be about 12-15'' away from the ground and the basking ranges from 102-106 and keeps the entire enclosure at 88-94. But from what I've gathered here on the forum you really dont need to worry about shell rot in Leo's and Sulcatas. A lot of people poor water in the corners of their habitats to soak the bottom inches of their substrate and keep the humidity up. I personally grow plants and weeds all through out my closed chamber and wouldnt be able to stir. I like growing plants and weeds to promote natural grazing but I dont think it really matters. All I did for my closed chamber was lay down a sheet of plastic, cut it to size, and now its totally water proof. If you cant afford to build a closed chamber (cost me $200) I would just settle for a larger tank and cover the top. I'm sure you can find one at a garage sale or craigs list for cheap. Just search around in the enclosure section and you'll get some ideas. I have seen a ton of really neat and creative ideas people have done to make their own closed chambers for very cheap.

Good luck!

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/post-665389.html#pid665389 Check this thread out. Its a great tutorial of a cheap and easy way to make a closed chamber.

 

[EchoTheLeoTort]

Thanks for the input everyone! For now I changed the bulb down to a 50 watt but if its too cold i have a 75 watt as well. I am going to have a budget of only $300 coming up at the end of this week. Wondering if anyone has good examples of a closed chamber that could be possible in that price range. I definitely want whats best for Echo. It is hard to see in the pic but there is a lid on top of the tub he is in to hold in humidity and heat. I also raised the lamp up as well as change the bulb so its higher off. I put foil on the hole in the lid for the light as well. rideburton I saw your link and i like that idea and will look into it. Thanks again everyone, I know we all just want whats in the best interest of the tort. I hope I can come up with something since he will be spending a lot of the year inside.

 

[theelectraco]

I bought this off Craigslist for $40 and didn't spend any money modifying it.

I just searched for entertainment centers with sliding doors on the Furniture for sale section on CL.

 

[EchoTheLeoTort]

oh wow thats a really good idea! thank you!

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I was given a 40 gallon reptile tank with a screen lid. But I see them on CL all the time for less than $50.

I covered the screen lid with plastic. Cut out holes in the plastic for the lights to sit on the screen and lined them with a ring of aluminum foil. I have the middle fixture (CHE) on thermostat for 80F and the right basking bulb is a 60 watt and the left light is a 7 watt for extra light no heat. My temps are perfect and my humidity stays high 80s to 90s for days and days and days! without re adding water.
I'm adding the pics from my phone so I think they will only show up as attachments.

You can definitely do a closed chamber for cheap

Good luck!

Heather
sent while on my purple android TFOapp