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Three-Striped Mud Turtles: BOLD & PINSTRIPE

Moozillion

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We are currently using a Zoo Med PowerSun 100W UVB (flood light style) in the All Living Things (Petsmart brand) "equivalent" of Zoo Med's Deep Dome Mini fixture.

That is suspended over the black screen lid of the 20L tank by the Large size Zoo Med light stand. ($20 or less if you shop around and/or price match for the large size.)

We purchased the All Living Things brand fixture because that was what was available when we needed it. However, I am less than satisfied with it, because the PowerSun extends beyond the fixture (slightly).
Thanks!
 

Pastel Tortie

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Any time! That's basically the same lighting setup we use for the bearded dragon, except he's in a 40B tank instead of a 20L.

I wouldn't even consider using a 100W PowerSun for a 20 long tank if it were NOT suspended over the black metal screen lid. The way we're using it, we're basically counting on the screen lid to reduce the intensity of light, UVB, and heat produced by the PowerSun. We made sure to include enough water and shade for the turtles to have shelter from the overhead "sun" in their enclosure when they need it.
 

Moozillion

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Any time! That's basically the same lighting setup we use for the bearded dragon, except he's in a 40B tank instead of a 20L.

I wouldn't even consider using a 100W PowerSun for a 20 long tank if it were NOT suspended over the black metal screen lid. The way we're using it, we're basically counting on the screen lid to reduce the intensity of light, UVB, and heat produced by the PowerSun. We made sure to include enough water and shade for the turtles to have shelter from the overhead "sun" in their enclosure when they need it.
With the screen on top, how do you manage the tubing and electric cords going into the tank?- I have the immersed heater, the powerhead and also the big take/output tubing for the canister filter.
 

Pastel Tortie

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With the screen on top, how do you manage the tubing and electric cords going into the tank?- I have the immersed heater, the powerhead and also the big take/output tubing for the canister filter.
There's a small gap at each corner of the metal screen lid. The gap is big enough for a normal regular household electrical cord (like for the immersed heater). There is no corresponding gap at the top of the tank itself, so the lid would not sit flush with the top of the tank, but it's barely noticeable (a few millimeters or however thick the electrical cord is).

Also, (the inside of) the metal screen lid is slightly wider all around than the top of the tank, so there's SOME room to work with. The electrical cords can probably be managed, between the corner gaps and the grace room around the top perimeter.

The tubing is another matter. We sort of kicked that proverbial can down the road when we set up the 20 long tank for Bold and Pinstripe. I have some thoughts about how to handle the tubing, but it hasn't been tested yet.

The Imagitarium black screen lid (for the 40 breeder tank) is hinged LENGTHWISE, so it opens from the front (like a piano hinge). The large Zoo Med light stand allows the light(s) above the screen to swing forward and to the side so the lid can be opened completely (i.e., folded back on itself).

Most of my thoughts about the tubing have to do with raising the back of the hinged lid enough to accommodate the tubing and to maybe add some kind of spacer to hold the back of the lid up, so the weight of the lid doesn't rest on the tubing itself. Or perhaps a spacer can be built/affixed all the way around the top (rim) of the tank, with holes cut for the tubing and wires to pass through.

I am assuming it would be a royal pain to cut holes in the metal screen lid itself, although someone with better tools and skills might not find that task so daunting.
 

Pastel Tortie

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I realize text isn't usually as interesting as the cute mud turtle pictures, but I do want to make sure I incorporate some of the day-to-day concerns, issues, and observations into this thread. :)

I know I researched and lurked for a good year or so before joining the forum, and I got a LOT out of it, even before I signed up. [So for any of you lurkers out there, know that I'm thinking of you and have you in mind when I make posts to this thread (and others). When you do finally sign up, please let me know if you found this thread helpful or entertaining in any way.]

I want to assist new, existing, and prospective turtle keepers with as much information and insight as possible... So they know what to expect or anticipate. So they know what they're getting into. So they know what thought process I go through when they encounter something new or need to figure something out.

Once in a while, it's even for me to go back to, to give myself some clues when I try to figure out what in the world I was thinking when I made certain decisions a while back! :p
 

Pastel Tortie

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Like any pair of roommates, Bold and Pinstripe do NOT get along 100 percent of the time. I just want to make that clear. Neither of them would mind being an only turtle, with the entire enclosure to herself. Especially when food is involved.

They are both equal opportunity food thieves, and they do sometimes squabble over food. The more prized the food item, the more likely they are to try to take it from each other. Waxworms are worth squabbling over, apparently. I think when they get into a tug-o'-war over a food item, Bold usually wins. It makes sense, she's the larger turtle. I usually compensate Pinstripe with another of the same type of food item, while Bold goes away to enjoy her prize.

I find it is absolutely necessary to supervise feeding times, for the entire length of feeding time. That used to be the case only with live food. Now that we have found a commercial diet that Pinstripe likes as well as Bold does, the turtles are having more conflicts at feeding time. The Hikari Sinking Carnivore Pellets are too small for tug-o'-war, so the squabbling has been more... direct.

Bold can often eat these pellets without having to break (crunch) them into smaller pieces first. Pinstripe isn't quite to that point yet; she still needs to crunch them up, and pieces of the pellet will fall nearby. For any food item they can't eat basically in one bite, they usually take it off to another part of the tank, to eat it away from the other turtle. So Bold doesn't have to go anywhere else to eat the pellets, so it's more difficult now to keep the turtles separated in their tank during mealtimes.

What that means is that I'm probably going to have to take the turtles out of the tank to feed them individually, in separate containers.
 

Pastel Tortie

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The reason I finally got around to posting the above message is because yesterday morning, I had to break up a turtle fight. :( It was food related, and I should have been more careful.

Normally, if the turtles have issues, they separate pretty quickly. This time, they were locked together going around in circles.

Bold's mouth was attached to Pinstripe's carapace (I think) where Pinstripe's front left arm was. I remember thinking, This is probably how turtles lose body parts...

I reached in behind Bold and grabbed her by the sides of her carapace (at the bridge part). Then I gently lifted her out of the tank. If she had a hold on Pinstripe's leg, I didn't want her biting down. I was worried.

Fortunately, Bold came out of the tank WITHOUT any part of Pinstripe attached... um, detached. I looked at Pinstripe (still in the tank), and was relieved to see all legs, feet, and toes accounted for. Neither turtle appeared to have been injured. I eventually returned Bold to the tank, releasing her in the opposite corner away from Pinstripe.
 

Moozillion

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The reason I finally got around to posting the above message is because yesterday morning, I had to break up a turtle fight. :( It was food related, and I should have been more careful.

Normally, if the turtles have issues, they separate pretty quickly. This time, they were locked together going around in circles.

Bold's mouth was attached to Pinstripe's carapace (I think) where Pinstripe's front left arm was. I remember thinking, This is probably how turtles lose body parts...

I reached in behind Bold and grabbed her by the sides of her carapace (at the bridge part). Then I gently lifted her out of the tank. If she had a hold on Pinstripe's leg, I didn't want her biting down. I was worried.

Fortunately, Bold came out of the tank WITHOUT any part of Pinstripe attached... um, detached. I looked at Pinstripe (still in the tank), and was relieved to see all legs, feet, and toes accounted for. Neither turtle appeared to have been injured. I eventually returned Bold to the tank, releasing her in the opposite corner away from Pinstripe.
WOW!! That's so tough to deal with...[emoji853]
But I'm very grateful nobody was hurt!
 

Pastel Tortie

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WOW!! That's so tough to deal with...[emoji853]
But I'm very grateful nobody was hurt!
Same here! It occurred to me to be glad I'm dealing with a species that does (often) get along well together (not both males and other caveats apply).
 

Pastel Tortie

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I've seen Bold nip at Pinstripe once after Pinstripe was making a frantic disruption (protesting or begging for food) at the front of the tank. It was a while back. I think Bold was annoyed and wanted a break, so she got nippy. Bold wasn't trying hard to make contact, I think she just wanted to make her point. Pinstripe was never in any real danger. She just turned the broad side of her carapace towards Bold's nips. Bold did get her point across, though. Pinstripe settled down and gave her roommate some space.
 

Moozillion

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I've seen Bold nip at Pinstripe once after Pinstripe was making a frantic disruption (protesting or begging for food) at the front of the tank. It was a while back. I think Bold was annoyed and wanted a break, so she got nippy. Bold wasn't trying hard to make contact, I think she just wanted to make her point. Pinstripe was never in any real danger. She just turned the broad side of her carapace towards Bold's nips. Bold did get her point across, though. Pinstripe settled down and gave her roommate some space.
Smart girl, Pinstripe! [emoji2]
 

Pastel Tortie

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The only time I have seen PINSTRIPE NIP at BOLD, I think BOLD may have DESERVED IT. It happened a while back, not long before we removed the artificial log from their tank. The water level had gradually increased by then, and there wasn't as much "dry" real estate on top of the log as there had been previously.

I didn't personally witness the basking incident that occurred prior to the nip, but my other half described it well. PINSTRIPE was basking on the log, and BOLD wanted to get up there. PINSTRIPE even scooted over to make room. When BOLD got onto the log, she LIFTED her front foot closest to Pinstripe... and PUSHED outward... KNOCKING PINSTRIPE OFF the log and INTO THE WATER!!! :eek: D

I think it was the next morning when PINSTRIPE GOT HER BACK. BOLD was on top of the log, in the middle by herself...and PINSTRIPE came up behind her, emerging from the water, and NIPPED at the back end of BOLD'S CARAPACE! No harm was done, I'm pretty sure no harm was intended, but BOLD was startled enough that she JUMPED forward, INTO THE WATER!!

PINSTRIPE: Small, but scrappy!
 

Moozillion

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The only time I have seen PINSTRIPE NIP at BOLD, I think BOLD may have DESERVED IT. It happened a while back, not long before we removed the artificial log from their tank. The water level had gradually increased by then, and there wasn't as much "dry" real estate on top of the log as there had been previously.

I didn't personally witness the basking incident that occurred prior to the nip, but my other half described it well. PINSTRIPE was basking on the log, and BOLD wanted to get up there. PINSTRIPE even scooted over to make room. When BOLD got onto the log, she LIFTED her front foot closest to Pinstripe... and PUSHED outward... KNOCKING PINSTRIPE OFF the log and INTO THE WATER!!! :eek: D

I think it was the next morning when PINSTRIPE GOT HER BACK. BOLD was on top of the log, in the middle by herself...and PINSTRIPE came up behind her, emerging from the water, and NIPPED at the back end of BOLD'S CARAPACE! No harm was done, I'm pretty sure no harm was intended, but BOLD was startled enough that she JUMPED forward, INTO THE WATER!!

PINSTRIPE: Small, but scrappy!
I'd say you've got your hands full with those two!!! :D
 

Pastel Tortie

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One thing Bold and Pinstripe's 20 long lacks is a nesting area. We're going to have to incorporate one of those into the 40 breeder for the upgrade.

Right now, both turtles look female. If one is a male, he hasn't developed yet.

A nesting area is part of my plan to keep the peace between the two turtles. I can just imagine it... Bold being super cranky, looking for someplace to lay eggs... :rolleyes:
 

Moozillion

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One thing Bold and Pinstripe's 20 long lacks is a nesting area. We're going to have to incorporate one of those into the 40 breeder for the upgrade.

Right now, both turtles look female. If one is a male, he hasn't developed yet.

A nesting area is part of my plan to keep the peace between the two turtles. I can just imagine it... Bold being super cranky, looking for someplace to lay eggs... :rolleyes:
Yeah: 2 girls with :eek: PMS (or whatever turtles get...) at the same time is a recipe for drama!!!!
Maybe 2 nesting areas: one at either end of the tank!!!! :p
 

Pastel Tortie

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Weights and Measurements

Thursday, August 8, 2019

PINSTRIPE
SCL: 2 & 13/16 inches (just over 2.75")
Weight: 83 grams

BOLD
SCL: 3 & 7/32 inches (almost 3.25")
Weight: 116 grams

Preliminary Analysis / Comments

Both turtles grew 1/8" in SCL since the last time I measured, just over two weeks ago. They both gained about the same amount. Bold gained 9 grams, and Pinstripe gained 10 grams. Proportionally, Pinstripe grew more than Bold did.

I gave each turtle a cube of frozen beef heart after the weigh-in and measurements. Pinstripe readily ate hers, but Bold wasn't at all interested. The only reason Pinstripe didn't finish Bold's off too was because they were in separate containers. :rolleyes:

Pinstripe takes longer than Bold to reach SCL milestones, but she weighs more when she finally gets there.
 

Pastel Tortie

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Bold and Pinstripe are avid consumers of cuttlebones. I try to put pieces of cuttlebone in their tank at least a couple times a week. They make short work of them. Of course they do... They're growing turtles! :)
 

Moozillion

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Weights and Measurements

Thursday, August 8, 2019

PINSTRIPE
SCL: 2 & 13/16 inches (just over 2.75")
Weight: 83 grams

BOLD
SCL: 3 & 7/32 inches (almost 3.25")
Weight: 116 grams

Preliminary Analysis / Comments

Both turtles grew 1/8" in SCL since the last time I measured, just over two weeks ago. They both gained about the same amount. Bold gained 9 grams, and Pinstripe gained 10 grams. Proportionally, Pinstripe grew more than Bold did.

I gave each turtle a cube of frozen beef heart after the weigh-in and measurements. Pinstripe readily ate hers, but Bold wasn't at all interested. The only reason Pinstripe didn't finish Bold's off too was because they were in separate containers. :rolleyes:

Pinstripe takes longer than Bold to reach SCL milestones, but she weighs more when she finally gets there.
So cool!! [emoji2]
 

Moozillion

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Bold and Pinstripe are avid consumers of cuttlebones. I try to put pieces of cuttlebone in their tank at least a couple times a week. They make short work of them. Of course they do... They're growing turtles! :)
That's great![emoji2]
Jacques LOVED her cuttle bone but Nelson has ZERO interest. I have to rely 100% on the kibbles, at least for now.
 
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