Time for a switch

[TheLastGreen]

I've been using orchid bark for my hingeback from the first day I got him and it just doesn't work. He almost struggles to walk on it, as the bunch of pieces move below him, he also get's stuck sometimes.
I'm switching over to coco coir. I do know that it may stink and be difficult to clean, but what fo you guys think?

 

[Blackdog1714]

I've been using orchid bark for my hingeback from the first day I got him and it just doesn't work. He almost struggles to walk on it, as the bunch of pieces move below him, he also get's stuck sometimes.
I'm switching over to coco coir. I do know that it may stink and be difficult to clean, but what fo you guys think?

You have to determine which works best for you out of the safe choices. Just presoak the block to soften and hand pack it down to smooth it out. If it gets dusty it's too dry. Good luck

 

[Lyn W]

If the coir is too messy you may be able to get fine grade orchid bark.
The smaller chunks seems to be more suitable for little torts.
Some people use the coir with a layer of fine OB on the top to reduce mess and/or place flat stones around water dishes to stop coir being dragged in which helps keep the water clean.

 

[TheLastGreen]

What do you guys think of this description? The magnesium calcium part concerns me
(Do note that I won't be adding perlite etc. like the description says)

 

[wellington]

I actually loved the coconut coir when mine were little. I would only buy what was sold for either tortoises or worms. If it was sold for plants I wouldn't buy it as what you listed seems to be in the coir packaged for plants. Tortoises don't need that stuff in their substrate.

 

[wellington]

You could also put a layer of coir on the bottom and what you are using now on top and press it down into the coir which would help it be more stable.

 

[TheLastGreen]

Well, I found loads of options for worms and such, but I also found a counterpart to the one above which doesn't have the calcium etc. and the perlite etc. isn't included, but I'm wary because both options cost the same amount

 

[Maggie3fan]

Do you use "fine" grade orchid bark? What might be wrong with your tortoise that he can't walk on it? I have used it for 20 years or so, and my sister more than me. It really is the best substrate.for what we all do. I have a 3 legged box turtle who has no problem with it. Is your hingeback an adult?

 

[TheLastGreen]

Do you use "fine" grade orchid bark? What might be wrong with your tortoise that he can't walk on it? I have used it for 20 years or so, and my sister more than me. It really is the best substrate.for what we all do. I have a 3 legged box turtle who has no problem with it. Is your hingeback an adult?

Nope I use just regular orchid bark (repti bark). I've checked now for fine grade orchid bark but it just shows a type of soil
He's a yearling, he's estimated to be just over a year old.
He does use his hind legs now and then, it seems he doesn't use his hind legs often when walking on the substrate. I've seen videos of other species babies with strong legs walking like a dog would, with all 4 feet, but my tort's never done that. He uses his arms, with great strength to pull himself forward. From the day I got him he would walk, almost push his legs to move on the substrate. I've been wondering a while now if it could be MBD. He's growing great, eating a varied diet, his pyramiding has stopped (he had it quite a bit when I got him), he has a strong shell and he gets way more sunning now, but I'm still not sure why he's walking like that?

 

[Yvonne G]

Nope I use just regular orchid bark (repti bark). I've checked now for fine grade orchid bark but it just shows a type of soil
He's a yearling, he's estimated to be just over a year old.
He does use his hind legs now and then, it seems he doesn't use his hind legs often when walking on the substrate. I've seen videos of other species babies with strong legs walking like a dog would, with all 4 feet, but my tort's never done that. He uses his arms, with great strength to pull himself forward. From the day I got him he would walk, almost push his legs to move on the substrate. I've been wondering a while now if it could be MBD. He's growing great, eating a varied diet, his pyramiding has stopped (he had it quite a bit when I got him), he has a strong shell and he gets way more sunning now, but I'm still not sure why he's walking like that?

Yeah, the smaller particles in "fine" grade orchid bark is much better for babies.

 

[jaizei]

Well, I found loads of options for worms and such, but I also found a counterpart to the one above which doesn't have the calcium etc. and the perlite etc. isn't included, but I'm wary because both options cost the same amountView attachment 342075

I would use either one. The buffering with calcium magnesium is to try to make it better for growing plants vs just rinsing the coir. Not something I would worry about.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Nope I use just regular orchid bark (repti bark). I've checked now for fine grade orchid bark but it just shows a type of soil
He's a yearling, he's estimated to be just over a year old.
He does use his hind legs now and then, it seems he doesn't use his hind legs often when walking on the substrate. I've seen videos of other species babies with strong legs walking like a dog would, with all 4 feet, but my tort's never done that. He uses his arms, with great strength to pull himself forward. From the day I got him he would walk, almost push his legs to move on the substrate. I've been wondering a while now if it could be MBD. He's growing great, eating a varied diet, his pyramiding has stopped (he had it quite a bit when I got him), he has a strong shell and he gets way more sunning now, but I'm still not sure why he's walking like that?

I know you didn't ask...Were it my tort, I'd make sure my UVB light has got strong UVB, I'd increase by a bit his calcium powder, leave cuttle bone laying around...and try some water exercise to make him use and strengthen his back legs...maybe you hold up his front and he'd paddle his back legs...just thinkin...

 

[TheLastGreen]

I know you didn't ask...Were it my tort, I'd make sure my UVB light has got strong UVB, I'd increase by a bit his calcium powder, leave cuttle bone laying around...and try some water exercise to make him use and strengthen his back legs...maybe you hold up his front and he'd paddle his back legs...just thinkin...

Thanks, don't worry, I'm always open to suggestions, perhaps I should make a new thread about it, but how do you do hydrotherapy? Do you fill the tub slightly and like you say hold him up? I don't want to stress him out, but currently he'd gain much more from it than not doing it

 

[Tom]

Thanks, don't worry, I'm always open to suggestions, perhaps I should make a new thread about it, but how do you do hydrotherapy? Do you fill the tub slightly and like you say hold him up? I don't want to stress him out, but currently he'd gain much more from it than not doing it

Like Maggie, I suspect some other problem. I've also been using Repti-Bark, or the cheaper bulk version of it for decades with brand new hatchlings of many species and never had any problem with them walking on it. I have brand new tiny platynota hatchlings on it right now.

You can use plain coir too, but I agree that there should be no chemicals used and no perlite in it. Perlite can kill them. Use a thick layer, keep it damp and hand pack it down firmly. Otherwise it will be too loose and fluffy which makes it very messy and hard to walk on.

 

[Maggie3fan]

I am not a physical therapist, but I personally have had lots of therapy. I would make the water level over his head, you hold his front, and talk softy to him, he will panic and try to fight you, but as long as he's using his back legs, just let him fight for a short time, maybe 5 minutes and I'd do it 2 or 3 times a day for months... but you need to take measures today because if you don't he will have a lifelong leg problem. He's young enuf and still growing that you just might be able to turn this around.
We are finally seeing some sun in the Willamette Valley in the beautiful state of Oregon...USofA
(you know it's rare when I try to get photos of it...my sky light..).

 

[Lyn W]

Nope I use just regular orchid bark (repti bark). I've checked now for fine grade orchid bark but it just shows a type of soil
He's a yearling, he's estimated to be just over a year old.
He does use his hind legs now and then, it seems he doesn't use his hind legs often when walking on the substrate. I've seen videos of other species babies with strong legs walking like a dog would, with all 4 feet, but my tort's never done that. He uses his arms, with great strength to pull himself forward. From the day I got him he would walk, almost push his legs to move on the substrate. I've been wondering a while now if it could be MBD. He's growing great, eating a varied diet, his pyramiding has stopped (he had it quite a bit when I got him), he has a strong shell and he gets way more sunning now, but I'm still not sure why he's walking like that?

Is he walking normally on other surfaces e.g. grass ?

 

[TheLastGreen]

Is he walking normally on other surfaces e.g. grass ?

Nope on short grass he doesn't walk normally. He then struggles to walk at all, the grass may be slightly too long so he can't use his lymbs. Just checked on carpet he does move much better, but he doesn't even bring his backlegs out😔

 

[TheLastGreen]

I am not a physical therapist, but I personally have had lots of therapy. I would make the water level over his head, you hold his front, and talk softy to him, he will panic and try to fight you, but as long as he's using his back legs, just let him fight for a short time, maybe 5 minutes and I'd do it 2 or 3 times a day for months... but you need to take measures today because if you don't he will have a lifelong leg problem. He's young enuf and still growing that you just might be able to turn this around.
We are finally seeing some sun in the Willamette Valley in the beautiful state of Oregon...USofA
(you know it's rare when I try to get photos of it...my sky light..).View attachment 342106

Just tried it and he doesn't move his backlegs. I even tried placing it on the tub surface but he doesn't even bother using them. I did gently tap his hind legs and they did shoot back into his shell. So there may be hope, I'll keep trying

 

[Maggie3fan]

Thanks, don't worry, I'm always open to suggestions, perhaps I should make a new thread about it, but how do you do hydrotherapy? Do you fill the tub slightly and like you say hold him up? I don't want to stress him out, but currently he'd gain much more from it than not doing it

He's a tortoise for pete's sake...I so totally disagree that they stress out so easily. Seriously, my pt comment was a joke. But if it were my tort I'd be doing exactly that.

Just tried it and he doesn't move his backlegs. I even tried placing it on the tub surface but he doesn't even bother using them. I did gently tap his hind legs and they did shoot back into his shell. So there may be hope, I'll keep trying

Is the water up over his head? He isn't fighting u?

 

[Lyn W]

Nope on short grass he doesn't walk normally. He then struggles to walk at all, the grass may be slightly too long so he can't use his lymbs. Just checked on carpet he does move much better, but he doesn't even bring his backlegs out😔

Sounds like there is a problem

I remember reading about a tort that was floated on something to make him use his back legs for physio. It was years ago but I'll see if I can find the thread.

Someone with experience of this will have to advise you on whether it's safe and suitable for the species though.