Tito the tortoise needs your help

[Naidene23]

Hi guys,

I have a Horsefield tortoise called Tito. I have had tito for almost 3 years and he was just a little baby when I got him so he is only around 3 years & a few months give or take.

Normally tito would be very active, a very well eater & I would genuinely not have any concerns for him, but the last few weeks I have noticed tito is very in-active, I have found myself waking him, bathing him & trying to hand feed him which he has often refused & crawls back under the straw in his hide.

His UV light which is also a heat lamp, comes on at 7am and goes off at 7pm. When his lamp comes on he makes his way out of the straw and towards the bulb but does not wake fully. He then sleeps there all day and does not move apart from changes his sleeping position. I bathed him today popped him back in his cage & he made his way to bed which is strange as it was only 3 in the afternoon.

His enclosure - a very large wooden tortoise table.
Heat under bulb - 35 to 40 degrees
Heat at furthest away end of table - 20 degrees
I bath tito every day if I can but if I can't every second day
Tito has been given worming medicine in the past

I have also noticed he has another eye infection which he has been given drops for in the past, I was told it was his substrate so I changed it to topsoil and play sand ready mixed which I bought out of a pet store.

I am very worried with the sudden change in titos behaviour & vets tell me it's to do with substrate when I have changed it numerous occasions.

I think another visit to vets is in order but would like to get some opinions from you guys as well. Thanks for taking your time to read this & get back to me if you can help.

Naidene & tito
Xo

 

[JoesMum]

Hi Naidene

I am at the other end of the country - in Kent

Please could you post good clear photos of your enclosure and lighting so we can see what's going on.

The photos above seem to show some sort of straw as a substrate? This isn't suitable - your tort needs something more like earth that holds moisture to raise humidity.

With eyes, the first thing we need to know about it your UVB. Is it a compact bulb that looks like a low energy light bulb? This type frequently causes eye problems in tortoises. The long tube type of bulb is safe. As are Mercury Vapour Bulbs that combine basking and UVB in a single bulb.

Anyway, post the pictures and we will take a look.

We have just been through the winter months and even the torts kept indoors seem to know that it's winter. Hopefully Tito has only been less active because of that and will pick up as spring progresses

 

[Laura1412]

Hi Nadine
Loving looking little Tito reading ur post I would be concerned with the play sand bein in with the top soil as the sand can be a eye irritant for torts and that could possibly be the eye problem he is experiencing would be best just plain top soil or coco coir

 

[Naidene23]

Hi guys thanks for getting back to me

I have uploaded a few pictures. I only use straw substrate in titos bed, the substrate pictured in the photos of Tito is substrate I used a few months back before changing to tortoise terrain. That is an ornament of a tortoise in the picture btw lol!

 

[Naidene23]

I'm new with this so wasn't sure if the pictures have uploaded successfully or not so could you guys let me know thanks

It's actually tortoise terrain which includes topsoil, sand and limestone grit.

The bulb I'm pretty sure is 100watts, if you would like a picture of the box it came in please let me know, I purchased it from a reptile store.

I will also send clearer pictures when it is morning as my room is dark the now and the flash of my camera didn't do a very great job!

Thanks for getting back to me and let me know if you need any more pictures or information,

Naidene x

 

[JoesMum]

Hi Naidene

You appear to have received outdated information about the care if Tito. The enclosure isn't really suitable.

This is going to be quite a long post as I try to explain my reasoning; sorry.

Tito needs more space - you're aiming for 4'x8' (1.5 x 2.2 metres). I don't know of any commercial tortoise tables that are big enough. An old bookcase with the shelves knocked out and lined with pond liner makes a great tortoise table.

The substrate you're using contains white bits. Tortoises looking for calcium are attracted to white bits and will try to eat them and end up eating the substrate with it. The substrate contains sand and that impacts in the gut. On TFO, we have real issues with this substrate being manufactured and sold for torts.

A good, safe substrate is coco coir. It comes in bricks like this which you dampen to break up. The substrate should all be evenly damp in any case to raise humidity.

Straw should not feature at all. It goes mouldy in the warm, damp, humidity required for a healthy tortoise.

Reptile water bowls are a tipping hazard and hard for a tortoise to use. Use a terracotta plant saucer for water - push it into the substrate so it's level with surface and then your tort can self soak in it. A piece of flat rock or slate, or even the wrong side if a bathroom tile, makes a great food plate that helps to abrade your tort's beak and keep it in shape.

The basking bulb is fine. It needs to hang vertically to be effective. Don't trust clamps. A MVB like that must be replaced every 9-12 months as the UVB output drops off drastically long before the bulb blows.

You need to be absolutely certain of temperatures in the enclosure. It must be 35-37C directly under the basking lamp and you need to know warm side, cool side and overnight minimum temperatures accurately. A temperature gun type thermometer like like this is best for spot measurements.

If you haven't already, I suggest you read the following and ignore advice you have received/found elsewhere. These are written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Care of Hermann's Torts
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/

 

[Naidene23]

Hi Naidene

You appear to have received outdated information about the care if Tito. The enclosure isn't really suitable.

This is going to be quite a long post as I try to explain my reasoning; sorry.

Tito needs more space - you're aiming for 4'x8' (1.5 x 2.2 metres). I don't know of any commercial tortoise tables that are big enough. An old bookcase with the shelves knocked out and lined with pond liner makes a great tortoise table.

The substrate you're using contains white bits. Tortoises looking for calcium are attracted to white bits and will try to eat them and end up eating the substrate with it. The substrate contains sand and that impacts in the gut. On TFO, we have real issues with this substrate being manufactured and sold for torts.

A good, safe substrate is coco coir. It comes in bricks like this which you dampen to break up. The substrate should all be evenly damp in any case to raise humidity.

Straw should not feature at all. It goes mouldy in the warm, damp, humidity required for a healthy tortoise.

Reptile water bowls are a tipping hazard and hard for a tortoise to use. Use a terracotta plant saucer for water - push it into the substrate so it's level with surface and then your tort can self soak in it. A piece of flat rock or slate, or even the wrong side if a bathroom tile, makes a great food plate that helps to abrade your tort's beak and keep it in shape.

The basking bulb is fine. It needs to hang vertically to be effective. Don't trust clamps. A MVB like that must be replaced every 9-12 months as the UVB output drops off drastically long before the bulb blows.

You need to be absolutely certain of temperatures in the enclosure. It must be 35-37C directly under the basking lamp and you need to know warm side, cool side and overnight minimum temperatures accurately. A temperature gun type thermometer like like this is best for spot measurements.

If you haven't already, I suggest you read the following and ignore advice you have received/found elsewhere. These are written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Care of Hermann's Torts
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/

Hi, thanks very much for your advice! I have went online to amazon & I have purchased the coca coir bricks & also the big bag! I have also purchased the flower pot saucer to use instead of his original water bowl.

I have made an appointment with the vet for half 4 today, although I find the vets sometimes just as unsure as myself and that's visiting a reptile vet!

The temperate under the light is 34c I have just measured that with my thermometer and the cold side is 20c and last night the temperature dropped in the cage to just below 15c.

What substrate should I use in his hide as bedding??

Thanks x

 

[JoesMum]

Hi, thanks very much for your advice! I have went online to amazon & I have purchased the coca coir bricks & also the big bag! I have also purchased the flower pot saucer to use instead of his original water bowl.

I have made an appointment with the vet for half 4 today, although I find the vets sometimes just as unsure as myself and that's visiting a reptile vet!

The temperate under the light is 34c I have just measured that with my thermometer and the cold side is 20c and last night the temperature dropped in the cage to just below 15c.

What substrate should I use in his hide as bedding??

Thanks x

He doesn't really need bedding, just shelter and substrate deep enough to dig into. They are cold blooded, so tucking up to keep warm doesn't apply.

It is too cold under the basking lamp. It needs to be 35-37C. To make it warmer, lower the light towards the substrate slightly.

The light needs to be on full and bright for 12-14 hours. Use a timer, it's easier!

 

[Naidene23]

Okay once the new substrate I have ordered arrives I will replace the old substrate

The light is on a 12 hour timer, and the brightest it goes, I will attach a photo of the bulb and the packaging it came in.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Arcadia makes good bulbs, but how long have you had this one? You may have said above and I missed it, but it's important to replace the bulb every ~6 months if your tortoise is being housed indoors as they stop producing UVB light well before the visible light output goes.

 

[Naidene23]

The date I purchased the bulb was the 4th of January 2017 so it is brand new.

I'm hoping changing titos substrate, removing the hay from his hide, & his visit with the vet today brings some happiness and a change in his behaviour.

I've ordered the new substrate so it is just a waiting game until it arrives.

Maybe his diet is needing changed? I feed tito on a daily basis - pak Choi, radish, lambs lettuce, Choi sum, the occasional dandelion leave but he turns his nose up mostly. Cress, water cress, ruby chard, mixed salad bags (I am aware of iceberg etc) and occasionally a tomato maybe once or twice a week.

I also sprinkle on his food every second day 'Nutrobal' for calcium and vitamins.

 

[JoesMum]

Arcadia makes good bulbs, but how long have you had this one? You may have said above and I missed it, but it's important to replace the bulb every ~6 months if your tortoise is being housed indoors as they stop producing UVB light well before the visible light output goes.

It's not indoors This one can be used until it blows. She doesn't actually need the UVB output at all

 

[Tom]

It's not indoors This one can be used until it blows. She doesn't actually need the UVB output at all

I'm not sure what you mean in this post.

This tortoise is indoors, and she certainly does need UVB for her indoor tortoise.

Did someone else hijack your computer???

 

[JoesMum]

The date I purchased the bulb was the 4th of January 2017 so it is brand new.

I'm hoping changing titos substrate, removing the hay from his hide, & his visit with the vet today brings some happiness and a change in his behaviour.

I've ordered the new substrate so it is just a waiting game until it arrives.

Maybe his diet is needing changed? I feed tito on a daily basis - pak Choi, radish, lambs lettuce, Choi sum, the occasional dandelion leave but he turns his nose up mostly. Cress, water cress, ruby chard, mixed salad bags (I am aware of iceberg etc) and occasionally a tomato maybe once or twice a week.

I also sprinkle on his food every second day 'Nutrobal' for calcium and vitamins.

Diet is weedy greens.

Tito can't digest sugars properly - they cause digestive and kidney problems - so tomato, fruit, carrot and peppers should only be fed very sparingly and very occasionally - if at all. Twice a week is a bit too often. Once a fortnight at most.

You can overdo the vitamins. A tiny pinch of calcium powder sprinkled on food 3 times a week is plenty.

Look up the greens you can buy and those that grow around you on The Tortoise Table Plant Database for suitability to feed. They also have a plant booklet in both electronic and paper form to help you with weed identification and an android app.
http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

Torts are notoriously picky eaters. They know what they like and they like what they know. Changing diet requires patience and time... and a strong will to get through the days when your tort inevitably goes on hunger strike!

 

[Tom]

Given the issue you are having, I think 15 might be a little too low overnight for this little guy. Shoot for 20 and see how it goes. You can warm the whole house, use a space heater in a closed room, or add a CHE set on a thermostat over his enclosure.

Here is a care sheet for your species:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[Naidene23]

My little one does live indoors, he has a tortoise table I always give him greens, I have never given him peppers etc but I must say he really enjoys a tomato but that can be a treat like you said.

I have a very large house with very high ceilings & my bedroom can become a little cold through the night I have never seen it drop below 15, but I'll try keep it up to 20, it usually is in the summer time.

I will cut down the vitamin powder I am giving him & I will also try and encourage tito to eat more weeds etc & up my knowledge with garden weeds so thank you.

He has the vets today at half 4 so I shall see what the vet says about him after his check up.

A little good new however, tito woke himself up today and I found him wondering around his pen, which is a step up from sleeping all day, al though he only eats if I hold him and hand feed him (very lazy).

 

[JoesMum]

I'm not sure what you mean in this post.

This tortoise is indoors, and she certainly does need UVB for her indoor tortoise.

Did someone else hijack your computer???

Dealing with too many threads simultaneously

Sorry. I have someone else who has an outdoor tort with an MVB.

Multi tasking fail. Sorry for the confusion

 

[Tom]

Dealing with too many threads simultaneously

Sorry. I have someone else who has an outdoor tort with an MVB.

Multi tasking fail. Sorry for the confusion

I knew there was a good explanation!

 

[Naidene23]

Hi guys, tito has been to the vets;

Believes to have respiratory problems, he is booked in for an x-ray tomorrow

I have been told the room temperature at night time is too low for tito and I need to try and up the temp. I live in a very large house, high ceilings, very old built house, I was wondering about the use of a heat mat at night in titos hide? Is this a good or bad idea? Just to keep the temperate at a happy medium??

I have been told tito will be on constant meds because where I bought him he has not had a great up bringing from the pet shop & my little man will be battling things all his life.

Any suggestions to improve the care and life of tito? I am so upset I do everything I can & he is spoiled rotten it's just a shame I got him from a pet shop that has obviously not had much knowledge in reptiles.

Help would be much appreciated thanks

 

[Naidene23]

Given the issue you are having, I think 15 might be a little too low overnight for this little guy. Shoot for 20 and see how it goes. You can warm the whole house, use a space heater in a closed room, or add a CHE set on a thermostat over his enclosure.

Here is a care sheet for your species:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

What is a CHE set on a thermostat? What do you mean by this? Thanks x