Tortoise and Hare's enclosures

[LJS]

Here are a couple pictures of my zoo room!! Jim's cage (my russian tortoise) and Everett's cage (my bunny)! They share a room!

Right now my tortoise only has regular bulb for heat. I have tried other uvb/uva lights without a lot of success. They always burnout quickly and they are expensive. Any suggestions for other options would be helpful. The most recent kind I tried was an incandescent uvb light. It lasted 2 weeks maybe. His flooring is a mixture of coconut bark and reptisand.

I am a little concerned that his beak is starting to get overgrown. I have read on this forum about slate tiles for a food plate. Will this help reduce a overgrown beak?

Thanks for your help and hope you enjoy the pictures![/b]

 

[coreyc]

Slate will work I use a big flat rock the pic's are not showing up

 

[Seiryu]

I don't see any pictures.

As far as the UVB lights burning out on a regular basis. The only thing I can think of is you are using a bulb in a fixture that can't handle the wattage of the bulb or the fixture is bad.

I haven't had a fluorescent burn out on me in many years of keeping reptiles. They always last the 5-6 months and then I replace them.

Were you using the Tube fluorescents, Mercury vapor or compacts? Compacts shouldn't be used regardless. Mercury vapors need a Ceramic socket that can easily carry the wattage. Home Depot/Walmart have ceramic fixtures for $10-12, that are up to 250 watts.

I recommend the Repti-SUN fluorescent tubes that come in 18, 24, 36, and 48" bulbs. Make sure it's the Repti-Sun by ZooMed, not Repti-Glo. Or if you want a Mercury Vapor to go with the PowerSun.

Slate tiles are great for feeding spots. It will wear down the beak over time yes. But depending on how bad the beak is, you might have to trim it.

 

[LJS]

Slate will work I use a big flat rock the pic's are not showing up

Thanks for your help, look again, I got the pics up! (Had to read the tech how to!!)!

---

I don't see any pictures.

As far as the UVB lights burning out on a regular basis. The only thing I can think of is you are using a bulb in a fixture that can't handle the wattage of the bulb or the fixture is bad.

I haven't had a fluorescent burn out on me in many years of keeping reptiles. They always last the 5-6 months and then I replace them.

Were you using the Tube fluorescents, Mercury vapor or compacts? Compacts shouldn't be used regardless. Mercury vapors need a Ceramic socket that can easily carry the wattage. Home Depot/Walmart have ceramic fixtures for $10-12, that are up to 250 watts.

I recommend the Repti-SUN fluorescent tubes that come in 18, 24, 36, and 48" bulbs. Make sure it's the Repti-Sun by ZooMed, not Repti-Glo. Or if you want a Mercury Vapor to go with the PowerSun.

Slate tiles are great for feeding spots. It will wear down the beak over time yes. But depending on how bad the beak is, you might have to trim it.

Thanks for your help! I will read up more on the fixtures, that might be the problem! My pictures are up now (I had to read the how to on how to post the pic !

 

[jeffbens0n]

Do you have your bunny just on that carpet all the time with a litter box? Doesn't he make a mess on the carpet?

 

[LJS]

Do you have your bunny just on that carpet all the time with a litter box? Doesn't he make a mess on the carpet?

Yes, he is on the carpet all the time. He is litter box trained. You can see his litter box in the first bunny cage photo in the lower right of the pic. He does all his "business" in there! It is WONDERFUL! A few pellets end up on the carpet, he drags them out, but it is less than 10 a day or so I have to throw back in the box! Thanks for asking!

 

[Kristina]

Looks pretty good.

I do see one major thing I would change. Your heat lamp needs to be pointing straight down, not on an angle like that. The way your tortoise is all huddled in the corner as close as he can get to the lamp makes me think he is too cold. I use a 100 W bulb for my Russians, and it keeps the basking area at about 100*F when it is only 12" from the substrate, pointing straight down.

Do you have a thermometer to check temps?

 

[ChiKat]

Aww how fun to have a tortoise AND a hare Glad they literally share a ROOM and not a cage- I was concerned for a minute (You never know with people nowadays haha)

Does your tortoise go IN the litter pan water dish? Creative!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hey, Lisa:

I think the reason for your light problem is what kyryah said. That plus I don't think your fixture has a ceramic base.

The MVBs need to be in a fixture large enough to hold the wattage of the bulb you put into it. So just any old fixture won't do. You need one with a ceramic base and one that will take the wattage of your bulb. Then, when you mount it, if you can't clamp it so it shines straight down, then don't use the clamp, hang it instead. It usually says right on the light's box that hanging it at an angle shortens the life of the bulb.

 

[LJS]

Looks pretty good.

I do see one major thing I would change. Your heat lamp needs to be pointing straight down, not on an angle like that. The way your tortoise is all huddled in the corner as close as he can get to the lamp makes me think he is too cold. I use a 100 W bulb for my Russians, and it keeps the basking area at about 100*F when it is only 12" from the substrate, pointing straight down.

Do you have a thermometer to check temps?

Thanks for the suggestions! With the clamp the way it is, that is as close to straight down as it will go. Also, he is all huddled in the corner because his light had just come on, he was not warmed up yet from the night. When the light is on for a while and he is basking he doesn't sit right under it, but out a little ways towards the water dish!

I haven't checked the temp recently, but I did when we first set up the enclosure and I haven't changed anything!

Thanks for the advice!

---

Aww how fun to have a tortoise AND a hare Glad they literally share a ROOM and not a cage- I was concerned for a minute (You never know with people nowadays haha)

Does your tortoise go IN the litter pan water dish? Creative!

Ha Ha! So true about people nowadays!!

Yes, he goes in there all the time! I have tried multiple dishes and this one seems to work the best! Thanks for the reply

---

Hey, Lisa:

I think the reason for your light problem is what kyryah said. That plus I don't think your fixture has a ceramic base.

The MVBs need to be in a fixture large enough to hold the wattage of the bulb you put into it. So just any old fixture won't do. You need one with a ceramic base and one that will take the wattage of your bulb. Then, when you mount it, if you can't clamp it so it shines straight down, then don't use the clamp, hang it instead. It usually says right on the light's box that hanging it at an angle shortens the life of the bulb.

Thanks for the ideas! I will need to check into it! Great ideas! Thanks for the reply!

---

I don't see any pictures.

As far as the UVB lights burning out on a regular basis. The only thing I can think of is you are using a bulb in a fixture that can't handle the wattage of the bulb or the fixture is bad.

I haven't had a fluorescent burn out on me in many years of keeping reptiles. They always last the 5-6 months and then I replace them.

Were you using the Tube fluorescents, Mercury vapor or compacts? Compacts shouldn't be used regardless. Mercury vapors need a Ceramic socket that can easily carry the wattage. Home Depot/Walmart have ceramic fixtures for $10-12, that are up to 250 watts.

I recommend the Repti-SUN fluorescent tubes that come in 18, 24, 36, and 48" bulbs. Make sure it's the Repti-Sun by ZooMed, not Repti-Glo. Or if you want a Mercury Vapor to go with the PowerSun.

Slate tiles are great for feeding spots. It will wear down the beak over time yes. But depending on how bad the beak is, you might have to trim it.

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas! I will check into all this! It has been a little while since I researched lights. The info is very helpful! Thanks for your reply!

 

[Jacqui]

Like was mentioned what you feed on can help. The usual ones are the tile that was mention, flat rocks, and I like the unglazed terra cotta plant water saucers.

What you feed can also help. Leave leaves whole, so they have to rip them up. I feed a whole (not cut up) carrot about once a month. Or like if your feeding let's say collards, let him have the hard stalk too. Plus feeding weeds over human greens helps too, as they are more fibrous (tougher). "Real" weeds are even better, by that I mean the wild ones that get no watering or help from humans but have to fight to survive (they tend to even be more fibrous).

 

[LJS]

Like was mentioned what you feed on can help. The usual ones are the tile that was mention, flat rocks, and I like the unglazed terra cotta plant water saucers.

What you feed can also help. Leave leaves whole, so they have to rip them up. I feed a whole (not cut up) carrot about once a month. Or like if your feeding let's say collards, let him have the hard stalk too. Plus feeding weeds over human greens helps too, as they are more fibrous (tougher). "Real" weeds are even better, by that I mean the wild ones that get no watering or help from humans but have to fight to survive (they tend to even be more fibrous).

Thanks for the suggestion. Right now I do feed on a concerte stone, and he does get whole leaves of greens. He never eats them off the stone tho, he always pulls them around. I do also try to feed weeds, but we live in Minnesota and have no weeds right now only snow!! Thanks for your reply!

 

[Tom]

I agree with the ladies. You need to invest in a $10 ceramic light fixture. You can find them at any hardware store. Those plastic type ones will almost always burn out. I used to use lots of them. Some would last for years, but others would short out and nearly start a fire in only months. MVB are the best bulb to use and they should last for at least a year if you point them straight down. You will have to rig up something to do this. I usually suspend the fixture from its cord.

Jacqui's suggestion of the terra cotta plant saucer is a good one and while you are there I'd get another big one and swap it out for that corner water pool. The low sides and shallow water are much easier and safer for them to utilize. I bury my saucers so the sides are nearly flush with the substrate.

 

[terryo]

Everyone gave you great suggestions, so I'm just going to say how impressed I am that your bunny is litter box trained. He is adorable....I love bunny's.

 

[Nay]

Terry, rabbits are a really nice pet, and as LJS says once they are used to using a box, they will only on occasion leave a pellet or 2. I think the only thing that's not as widely known is most are chewers! And you have to be careful. We have a 9 yr old rabbit that has complete run of the house.(I was very lucky he is not a chewer!! And with 6 dogs he actually rules the roost. This pic is when someone gave me this hammock bed and he claimed it and would not let any of the dogs on it. (Funny when you see a 5 lb rabbit tell an 85 lb dog what to do!! I love him....

Here is Albert's favorite dog Ajax. He will let this dog lick him forever. I have a great video of it!!

Nay

 

[LJS]

Terry, rabbits are a really nice pet, and as LJS says once they are used to using a box, they will only on occasion leave a pellet or 2. I think the only thing that's not as widely known is most are chewers! And you have to be careful. We have a 9 yr old rabbit that has complete run of the house.(I was very lucky he is not a chewer!! And with 6 dogs he actually rules the roost. This pic is when someone gave me this hammock bed and he claimed it and would not let any of the dogs on it. (Funny when you see a 5 lb rabbit tell an 85 lb dog what to do!! I love him....

Here is Albert's favorite dog Ajax. He will let this dog lick him forever. I have a great video of it!!

Nay


So funny that a bun could rule the roost. Mine is a chewer! I am just starting to let him venture out of his very large cage, but am dealing with the chewing. Not sure the best way to disciple/curb that while he is out!! Great pics! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Nay]

Sometimes you can discourage it by applying that icky tasting spray, one is called "YUK". Or a mix of Tabasco and pepper rubbed on by a cotton ball.Seems cruel ,but the alternative is much worst!!! The cords are so most important, but I had one that would jump on the bed and chew the window sills.He also would find away under our couch and chew the underneath,(never knew that till we moved, and it was a very cheap couch.) Albert used to even go out our pet door to the back yard and then come in, but he seems to be slowing down some and isn't nearly as interested to do that. Course could be the 4 feet of snow outside too!!
Try some of those products, you will have to reapply on occasion but if you find the magic one you'll be happier!
Rabbits Rule!!

 

[tortoisenerd]

Great suggestions! I think a slate tile for feeding will do wonders for an overgrown beak. They rub their beak on it when picking up the greens. If it is too far gone (you can show us a photo), it may however need to be filed down (I'd have an experienced tort vet do it). You can get one for $2 at a home improvement store (if you just see a box of them, ask someone to sell you just one). It works great for keeping the substrate away from the food too. For wearing down nails, I use flat river rocks in the enclosure, which you can get at craft stores and other places. Yes, get a high quality ceramic socket fixture...look with one with a hook to hang it (and use a lamp stand so you can adjust the height and mount it with the bulb face parallel to the substrate), not one that clamps (not very secure). Sometimes you get a bad bulb, but it sounds like you either have a fixture problem or maybe an electricity problem.

Get a Mega Ray, T-Rex Active UV Heat, or Powersun 100 Watt MVB. Put it on your calendar to change it yearly (or earlier, which is better). Unless of course you can get your tort out for sun most days for an hour or so--then you don't need the MVB (just a house bulb to get the correct temps). The MVB is much better for your tort (they put out UVB closer to the sun, where a tube UVB puts out barely anything) and cheaper in the long run than having a light bulb + heat emitter + tube UVB (tube UVBs have to be replaced every 6 months not 12). Also get a temp gun and check the temps every 1-2 days...not just when you make changes. The gradient will change with any temp changes in the room, humidity changes, etc. Temperature is very important to tort keeping and not something you want to take chances with. You may want to try putting the heat in the middle to get a warmer gradient. Test it out with the tort out of the enclosure. Next substrate change, I'd ditch the sand...it can be messy and an irritant with no real benefit. You can use the coir plain, an organic potting soil, cypress mulch, orchid bark, or aspen shavings (not pine, cedar, or a wood mix).

Torts like a hide in each temperature zone (hot, medium, and cool). You can use anything from a cardboard box to a plastic container to a fake plant with large leaves. I am wary of those half log hides because torts love to climb them, and then they have trouble getting down and they flip over. Vertical sides can be safer, even with less adventurous adult torts (you worry more about hatchlings flipping over). Are you sure the tort can get safely in and out of that water dish with ease? Sometimes if they think it looks hard, they won't use it. I'd put the tort in there and watch if you haven't actually seen the tort do it. If the enclosure still looks dark with the 100 Watt MVB (ie. you don't have a lot of room light), I'd add another light...Russians like it bright and it will stimulate activity.

 

[LJS]

Great suggestions! I think a slate tile for feeding will do wonders for an overgrown beak. They rub their beak on it when picking up the greens. If it is too far gone (you can show us a photo), it may however need to be filed down (I'd have an experienced tort vet do it). You can get one for $2 at a home improvement store (if you just see a box of them, ask someone to sell you just one). It works great for keeping the substrate away from the food too. For wearing down nails, I use flat river rocks in the enclosure, which you can get at craft stores and other places. Yes, get a high quality ceramic socket fixture...look with one with a hook to hang it (and use a lamp stand so you can adjust the height and mount it with the bulb face parallel to the substrate), not one that clamps (not very secure). Sometimes you get a bad bulb, but it sounds like you either have a fixture problem or maybe an electricity problem.

Get a Mega Ray, T-Rex Active UV Heat, or Powersun 100 Watt MVB. Put it on your calendar to change it yearly (or earlier, which is better). Unless of course you can get your tort out for sun most days for an hour or so--then you don't need the MVB (just a house bulb to get the correct temps). The MVB is much better for your tort (they put out UVB closer to the sun, where a tube UVB puts out barely anything) and cheaper in the long run than having a light bulb + heat emitter + tube UVB (tube UVBs have to be replaced every 6 months not 12). Also get a temp gun and check the temps every 1-2 days...not just when you make changes. The gradient will change with any temp changes in the room, humidity changes, etc. Temperature is very important to tort keeping and not something you want to take chances with. You may want to try putting the heat in the middle to get a warmer gradient. Test it out with the tort out of the enclosure. Next substrate change, I'd ditch the sand...it can be messy and an irritant with no real benefit. You can use the coir plain, an organic potting soil, cypress mulch, orchid bark, or aspen shavings (not pine, cedar, or a wood mix).

Torts like a hide in each temperature zone (hot, medium, and cool). You can use anything from a cardboard box to a plastic container to a fake plant with large leaves. I am wary of those half log hides because torts love to climb them, and then they have trouble getting down and they flip over. Vertical sides can be safer, even with less adventurous adult torts (you worry more about hatchlings flipping over). Are you sure the tort can get safely in and out of that water dish with ease? Sometimes if they think it looks hard, they won't use it. I'd put the tort in there and watch if you haven't actually seen the tort do it. If the enclosure still looks dark with the 100 Watt MVB (ie. you don't have a lot of room light), I'd add another light...Russians like it bright and it will stimulate activity.

Thanks for your advice! I will check into a ceramic light fixture, I think that may be my problem. I have had this water dish in his cage for a couple years and he definitely can get in and out, but thanks for your concern! I will check into the lights, thanks for your help.

 

[tortoisenerd]

So you've had this tort for a couple years and he hasn't had regular UVB? Is he getting outside regularly?